Autoshift and Automatic
11-29-2009, 11:59 AM
#1
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Autoshift and Automatic
Thinking of going big truck as an upgrade for car hauling. And the either the Autoshift or Automatic option has intrigued me. I went from 5 speed 3500 to an Allison 3500 (dmax) and now back to my 6 speed (g56) and to be honest I'd really like to stop shifting for a while. So any feedback or experience would be great and fuel economy differences would also be appreciated.
THANKS!
THANKS!
11-29-2009, 12:54 PM
#2
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If you are in a hurry, the automatics are quicker in stop & go traffic because there is no pause for shifting.
We have one truck in the fleet with an fully automated trans (2 pedal, wet clutch). It's really neat to drive from a technology standpoint, you can just mash the pedal and it will leave the line smoothly and go up through the gears as gently as a professional driver who pays his own repair bills.
I can't help but think that's got to be better for u-joints and axles long-term. We have not had any trouble with the trans or clutch yet after almost 3 years.
Eaton claims better mileage, but I can't back that up since we don't have any other DT466E powered trucks to compare it with. Not really fair to compare it to a Cat 3126/C7 powered truck. And mileage reflects the driver more than anything...
They have dry clutch 2 pedal automated transmissions now, and there are also 3 pedal automated shifting transmissions available. My personal preference would be a dry clutch 2 pedal. Wet clutches are kind of an oddball thing and getting repairs could be troublesome. The dry clutch is no different than any other truck clutch, it just doesn't have driver controlled linkage.
We have one truck in the fleet with an fully automated trans (2 pedal, wet clutch). It's really neat to drive from a technology standpoint, you can just mash the pedal and it will leave the line smoothly and go up through the gears as gently as a professional driver who pays his own repair bills.
I can't help but think that's got to be better for u-joints and axles long-term. We have not had any trouble with the trans or clutch yet after almost 3 years.Eaton claims better mileage, but I can't back that up since we don't have any other DT466E powered trucks to compare it with. Not really fair to compare it to a Cat 3126/C7 powered truck. And mileage reflects the driver more than anything...
They have dry clutch 2 pedal automated transmissions now, and there are also 3 pedal automated shifting transmissions available. My personal preference would be a dry clutch 2 pedal. Wet clutches are kind of an oddball thing and getting repairs could be troublesome. The dry clutch is no different than any other truck clutch, it just doesn't have driver controlled linkage.
11-29-2009, 02:51 PM
#3
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I drove Allisons quite a bit in fire trucks and what was said above about them moving out faster is correct. I didn't like the older ones very much but the newer electronically controlled ones work very well. The downside is they are $$$ to work on and they suck HP out of the engine to operate them.
I have only moved an autoshift rig around the yard unhooking a trailer or loading. The outfit my brother works for bought 110 new Macks with autoshifts in them. They have had tons of trouble with the electronic controls on the shifters. Guys won't really say they dislike them, just they are OK after you get used to them. I was not impressed moving them around. Felt like somebody ran into the back of the rig when they shifted although the guys that drove them said they were smooth enough loaded. I never was assigned one because I had not been trained on them. 'Splain that one to me since they shift themselves?????
My brothers outfit bought some more new Macks recently and guess what? Regular 10 speed. 
I have only moved an autoshift rig around the yard unhooking a trailer or loading. The outfit my brother works for bought 110 new Macks with autoshifts in them. They have had tons of trouble with the electronic controls on the shifters. Guys won't really say they dislike them, just they are OK after you get used to them. I was not impressed moving them around. Felt like somebody ran into the back of the rig when they shifted although the guys that drove them said they were smooth enough loaded. I never was assigned one because I had not been trained on them. 'Splain that one to me since they shift themselves?????
My brothers outfit bought some more new Macks recently and guess what? Regular 10 speed.
11-30-2009, 01:41 PM
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i like my allison 6spd auto in my Freightliner FL-60. shifts smoothly and the downshift are great. plus it gets up and scoots pretty well as previously stated
11-30-2009, 08:37 PM
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I was impressed with the Autoshift 10 speed in a company truck. Very smooth and much less impact to the driveline and load. Every cattlehauler or horse hauler should have one!
Check out the Ultrashift from Eaton, too.
Potentially, there's better fuel economy as well...
JH
Check out the Ultrashift from Eaton, too.
Potentially, there's better fuel economy as well...
JH
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12-01-2009, 08:45 AM
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12-01-2009, 05:18 PM
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The 3rd generation autoshifts are great! The first and second ones seem to have a lot of electrical issues.
I have yet to see an unltrashift clutch last more than 350,000-400,000 miles and to me thats just crap since the clutches cost over $1200!
The allisons, never a minutes trouble! Quick to get up to speed and work great! I would buy one in a heart beat!
I have yet to see an unltrashift clutch last more than 350,000-400,000 miles and to me thats just crap since the clutches cost over $1200!
The allisons, never a minutes trouble! Quick to get up to speed and work great! I would buy one in a heart beat!
12-01-2009, 08:18 PM
#10
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So what years are we talking for the generations??
As far as an Allison goes, I have never seen one in a Class 8 truck. And on there site it shows that they have models to handle the weight but only a 6 speed??
As far as Ultrashifts $1200 for a clutch does not seem that bad if it goes 400k, heck its $1000 for our little trucks and if you get 200k you did real well.
And last is the Ultrashift the only choice for a class 8 full auto?? Or who makes the other?
As far as an Allison goes, I have never seen one in a Class 8 truck. And on there site it shows that they have models to handle the weight but only a 6 speed??
As far as Ultrashifts $1200 for a clutch does not seem that bad if it goes 400k, heck its $1000 for our little trucks and if you get 200k you did real well.
And last is the Ultrashift the only choice for a class 8 full auto?? Or who makes the other?
12-01-2009, 10:00 PM
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The Allisons are VERY popular in class 8. You mostly see them in dump trucks and just about every single garbage truck on the road. They hold up awsome in dumps and garbage applications so over the road they just hold up even more! The local heavy haul company we have will only buy Macks with the Allisons behind them.
You only need 6 gears with them. it runs each gear out then locks the converter so its almost like splitting each one. Overdrive ratios vary but most are around .72-.76, about the same as any Eaton.
As far as ultrashift clutches, I have several owner ops that use plane jane manual adjust clutches and get 750,000-1,000,000 miles on them and when they do replace them they get nice full factory warranty Eaton easy pedals for about $400. No electrical issues to worry about and a lot cheaper to maintain in my opinion.
Any auto-shift after about 2002 is good to go.
And on the allisons, the USPS only runs allisons in their class 8 over the road trucks.
You only need 6 gears with them. it runs each gear out then locks the converter so its almost like splitting each one. Overdrive ratios vary but most are around .72-.76, about the same as any Eaton.
As far as ultrashift clutches, I have several owner ops that use plane jane manual adjust clutches and get 750,000-1,000,000 miles on them and when they do replace them they get nice full factory warranty Eaton easy pedals for about $400. No electrical issues to worry about and a lot cheaper to maintain in my opinion.
Any auto-shift after about 2002 is good to go.
And on the allisons, the USPS only runs allisons in their class 8 over the road trucks.
12-04-2009, 11:56 PM
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The allison autos are def. quicker, but more popular with medium duty stuff. If you're looking to haul full size, an ultrashift of autoshift is the way to go.
A lot of that has to do with driving style. They claim an ultrashift can hold a load on a 12% grade or something, but thats what really kills those clutches, trying to hold a load with the trans, not the brakes.
The ultrashift clutches are a lot different than your average clutch. They are centrifigally engaged and have no driver input other than engine speed. As engine speed increases, wedge shaped weights are forced outward and apply pressure to the clutch pack. An easy pedal wouldn't cut it in an ultashift mostly because well... there is no pedal.
I have yet to see an unltrashift clutch last more than 350,000-400,000 miles and to me thats just crap since the clutches cost over $1200!
As far as ultrashift clutches, I have several owner ops that use plane jane manual adjust clutches and get 750,000-1,000,000 miles on them and when they do replace them they get nice full factory warranty Eaton easy pedals for about $400. No electrical issues to worry about and a lot cheaper to maintain in my opinion.
12-05-2009, 06:49 PM
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2 more options no one touched on are the freedom line 2 pedal automated trans from zf, and the new i shift 2 pedal automated from volvo, have repaired all automated 2 and the pedal designs and all have their issues,i think when you price out the options they are close in price as well, if it was me gen 3 ultrashift or volvo i shift would be my only choice
01-09-2010, 01:41 PM
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I worked for Daimler as a test driver for a '08 & one of the things we were testing was the Auto shift & we were running at 137,000# 24/7 up & down a 6% grade trying to see what broke & they held up **** good even on the trucks that were putting 900 ponies on the ground according to the engineers.
01-10-2010, 01:37 AM
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I worked for Daimler as a test driver for a '08 & one of the things we were testing was the Auto shift & we were running at 137,000# 24/7 up & down a 6% grade trying to see what broke & they held up **** good even on the trucks that were putting 900 ponies on the ground according to the engineers.