Twins, Twins, Twins, Twins, Twins............
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From: Red Deer, Alberta
The Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Airdrie Canada
Possibly, its for future ASW projects. Brett needs more practise with the TIG welding. We have one on the go, just wanted to share with you guys. Its a game changer, don't need tools to remove the air pipes. Its going onto a race truck/sled puller. Probably going to try a street truck this fall, hopefully mine.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hey Brett,
You've mentioned that you have been tuning some CR trucks with the Smarty SSR & with EFI Live so this info may be old news for you but I find it fascinating.
This thread on CF is extremely informative. It goes off track but then Cumminalong starts explaining how powerful EFI Live is & the graphical screen shots.
Cumminalong is an extremely skilled CR builder, tuner & has excellent communication skills. I wonder if he posts on CompD also?
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3r...o-results.html
Here is an example of one of his posts explaining the Cummins ECM programming strategy, an example of a totally messed up a "box" program, & what his programming strategy is.
EFI Live is changing everything in the CR world. You will never look at your Smarty or any box tuner the same way again.
This is exactly what happened in the gas engine EFI world over 10 years ago...
Ask and ye shall receive....
Now, keep in mind. When you are seeing these maps, I'm not showing you the associated tables that go along with them, so you are only seeing the graphical representation of the data so it's easy to understand. I'm not going to post the actual table of anything other than the OEM.
Here are the maps from the OEM, one of todays popular tuners and my last dyno session map.
Before I show you those maps, I'm going to show you the limiter in the ECM. You can set the maximum and minimum timing in the ECM and it can be set up like any other map. But, really all you need to do with this one is set it as your desired maximum.
The one on the left is MY maximum timing limiter. Again, I had to physically modify this to get my timing higher than the OEM limter on the right. My limiter is set at 52*, the OEM is set at 45*. What's funny is, the popular tuner uses this OEM limiter, but commands timing that is up to 13 degrees beyond that limiter.
Here is the OEM timing map.....max timing of about 29*
One of today's popular tuners.....max timing is around 58*, but limited by the OEM limiter to 45*.....
Here is my timing map. I removed my values from the side bar as the timing map is THE key map to making power. Sorry, that's my little secret. I will tell you that my max timing in the table is 50* though. Beyond that I get detontation.
Now, keep in mind. When you are seeing these maps, I'm not showing you the associated tables that go along with them, so you are only seeing the graphical representation of the data so it's easy to understand. I'm not going to post the actual table of anything other than the OEM.
Here are the maps from the OEM, one of todays popular tuners and my last dyno session map.
Before I show you those maps, I'm going to show you the limiter in the ECM. You can set the maximum and minimum timing in the ECM and it can be set up like any other map. But, really all you need to do with this one is set it as your desired maximum.
The one on the left is MY maximum timing limiter. Again, I had to physically modify this to get my timing higher than the OEM limter on the right. My limiter is set at 52*, the OEM is set at 45*. What's funny is, the popular tuner uses this OEM limiter, but commands timing that is up to 13 degrees beyond that limiter.
Here is the OEM timing map.....max timing of about 29*
One of today's popular tuners.....max timing is around 58*, but limited by the OEM limiter to 45*.....
Here is my timing map. I removed my values from the side bar as the timing map is THE key map to making power. Sorry, that's my little secret. I will tell you that my max timing in the table is 50* though. Beyond that I get detontation.
The Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Airdrie Canada
Joe, we are working on getting a 06 modified truck onto a dyno for a day of adjusting. The mapping stuff is way more complex than smart stuff, which has its good stuff and bad issues.
Heard someone has pulled a smarty TNT tune into EFI, just to see how its was mapped. Its very exciting news for us CR guys, can't wait for it to become available for the newer trucks.
Heard someone has pulled a smarty TNT tune into EFI, just to see how its was mapped.
Its very exciting news for us CR guys, can't wait for it to become available for the newer trucks.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Ditto that!
Kevin, I would imagine you will be running the Smarty SSR for your truck since EFI Live is only available for 06-07 Cummins at the moment?
I've noticed there are a few used SSR's floating around already.
The SSR is so crude when compared to EFI Live. I'm not sure it's worth it as it would be totally transitional until EFI Live is available for our older trucks.
On the other hand, now that guys with EFI Live can analyze Smarty box tunes with EFI Live, this will really push the Smarty tunes to improve.
This could push the Smarty SSR, which is still new & still evolving, to really improve.
Kevin, I would imagine you will be running the Smarty SSR for your truck since EFI Live is only available for 06-07 Cummins at the moment?
I've noticed there are a few used SSR's floating around already.
The SSR is so crude when compared to EFI Live. I'm not sure it's worth it as it would be totally transitional until EFI Live is available for our older trucks.
On the other hand, now that guys with EFI Live can analyze Smarty box tunes with EFI Live, this will really push the Smarty tunes to improve.
This could push the Smarty SSR, which is still new & still evolving, to really improve.
Chapter President
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,102
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From: Red Deer, Alberta Canada
You gotta think that probably only about 0.25% of the guys out there could effectively use EFI and not do damage. Having it in the box like SSR, at least removes a little bit of the ambiguity of tuning the engine for performance.
Just stop by a local Chev dealer and see what EFI live in the hands of stoners does..
This software is the ultimate for any of those with intent on drag racing or sled pulling. Also, if guys are pulling in Smarty tunes to bash Marco I can see the overburdened legal system being brought into this.
Just stop by a local Chev dealer and see what EFI live in the hands of stoners does..
This software is the ultimate for any of those with intent on drag racing or sled pulling. Also, if guys are pulling in Smarty tunes to bash Marco I can see the overburdened legal system being brought into this.
The Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,589
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From: Airdrie Canada
You gotta think that probably only about 0.25% of the guys out there could effectively use EFI and not do damage. Having it in the box like SSR, at least removes a little bit of the ambiguity of tuning the engine for performance.
Just stop by a local Chev dealer and see what EFI live in the hands of stoners does..
This software is the ultimate for any of those with intent on drag racing or sled pulling. Also, if guys are pulling in Smarty tunes to bash Marco I can see the overburdened legal system being brought into this.
Just stop by a local Chev dealer and see what EFI live in the hands of stoners does..
This software is the ultimate for any of those with intent on drag racing or sled pulling. Also, if guys are pulling in Smarty tunes to bash Marco I can see the overburdened legal system being brought into this.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Airdrie, AB
Hey Joe,
Yes I have seen all of that, both online and first hand. I am by no means a pro tuner, but I do have about 30hrs into it now, and have a pretty good grasp of how it all works. I have done both onsite and remote tuning with data logs.
I have been actively involved in tuning EFI in the gasoline world since 1999, and have been waiting for software like this for what feels like ever for diesels. I have always been too poor to try the standalone's that have been available for a few years now.
While the SSR is crude in comparison to EFI live, it is a HUGE step up from the S06. Jade's truck that won the armor event, went from hardly being able to spool that charger, on any setting, and not being able to spool it on Sw5 and above (would just drown its self in fuel). To being able to light it quick, and have all the fuel that sw09 provided and then some.
Compared to Bosch and Nira, efi live is still rather crude too... Everyone has someone to look up too.
Yes I have seen all of that, both online and first hand. I am by no means a pro tuner, but I do have about 30hrs into it now, and have a pretty good grasp of how it all works. I have done both onsite and remote tuning with data logs.
I have been actively involved in tuning EFI in the gasoline world since 1999, and have been waiting for software like this for what feels like ever for diesels. I have always been too poor to try the standalone's that have been available for a few years now.
While the SSR is crude in comparison to EFI live, it is a HUGE step up from the S06. Jade's truck that won the armor event, went from hardly being able to spool that charger, on any setting, and not being able to spool it on Sw5 and above (would just drown its self in fuel). To being able to light it quick, and have all the fuel that sw09 provided and then some.
Compared to Bosch and Nira, efi live is still rather crude too... Everyone has someone to look up too.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,245
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hey Joe,
Yes I have seen all of that, both online and first hand. I am by no means a pro tuner, but I do have about 30hrs into it now, and have a pretty good grasp of how it all works. I have done both onsite and remote tuning with data logs.
I have been actively involved in tuning EFI in the gasoline world since 1999, and have been waiting for software like this for what feels like ever for diesels. I have always been too poor to try the standalone's that have been available for a few years now.
While the SSR is crude in comparison to EFI live, it is a HUGE step up from the S06. Jade's truck that won the armor event, went from hardly being able to spool that charger, on any setting, and not being able to spool it on Sw5 and above (would just drown its self in fuel). To being able to light it quick, and have all the fuel that sw09 provided and then some.
Compared to Bosch and Nira, efi live is still rather crude too... Everyone has someone to look up too.
Yes I have seen all of that, both online and first hand. I am by no means a pro tuner, but I do have about 30hrs into it now, and have a pretty good grasp of how it all works. I have done both onsite and remote tuning with data logs.
I have been actively involved in tuning EFI in the gasoline world since 1999, and have been waiting for software like this for what feels like ever for diesels. I have always been too poor to try the standalone's that have been available for a few years now.
While the SSR is crude in comparison to EFI live, it is a HUGE step up from the S06. Jade's truck that won the armor event, went from hardly being able to spool that charger, on any setting, and not being able to spool it on Sw5 and above (would just drown its self in fuel). To being able to light it quick, and have all the fuel that sw09 provided and then some.
Compared to Bosch and Nira, efi live is still rather crude too... Everyone has someone to look up too.
Thanks Brett...
Great to hear that you are working with both EFI Live & the Smarty SSR plus all your EFI gas engine turning experience
I'm still very new to diesels but I know what a custom program built on a dyno can do as my Mustang has had a 4 bank SCT chip/program for over 8 years with tons of dyno time getting it programmed right as the engine changed over the years.
Your thoughts on the Smarty SSR are interesting as EFI Live won't likely be available for my truck for at least a couple years or more.
By then you will be a Pro EFI Live Cummins tuner!!
The legalities are another discussion altogether. There will always be a market for box tuners like the Smarty & I'm sure that they will adapt to competition from the EFI Live tuners.
As I said, EFI Live will force the box tuners to improve their programming, since now that everyone can view them & analyze them.
This will benefit users of the box tuners.
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From: Airdrie, AB
I have seen a handful of stock 03-04's too unfortunately. But yes on a whole they do seem to be a lot more robust.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 954
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From: Airdrie, AB
Let me know when. My last day at my job is September 16th, not sure what, or when I am going to next, just decided that it won't be here. I have a truck already booked on the evening of the 16th, until it is done, but no trucks booked after, just a couple of engine builds.
