Lets Talk Turbos
12-07-2011, 08:42 AM
#16
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Can you please expand on that? Like I said. I'm really really uninformed when it comes to aftermarket turbos. Why won't it tow well? Too laggy?
Are you speaking from a 5.9 experience or have you dealt with a 6.7 and this size turbo while towing. Everything I've read says it's completely different worlds from the 5.9 to 6.7 when going with aftermarket turbos. Forgive my ignorance but I really want to make a good decision here. I'm fixing to declare nuclear war on my warranty and just want to do it right.
Are you speaking from a 5.9 experience or have you dealt with a 6.7 and this size turbo while towing. Everything I've read says it's completely different worlds from the 5.9 to 6.7 when going with aftermarket turbos. Forgive my ignorance but I really want to make a good decision here. I'm fixing to declare nuclear war on my warranty and just want to do it right.
On a 6.7L, you'll be around 1700-1800 rpm's. Most of the 12V 5.9L seem to really wake up decently by installing a S366. Of course twins (the right twins) you'll be around 1400-1500 rpm's. Lots of guys daily drive S366's. I'm not a fan, they seem to break easy and have thrust bearing issues.
I personally like garrett's better, a GT3788R stage 3 would out spool a stock turbo. It has a 63.8mm inducer, while the 66 has a 66mm inducer
12-07-2011, 04:39 PM
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12-07-2011, 05:44 PM
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I ran a manually controlled HE551V on my 12v, and did a pretty easy 551/1089. Guy I sold it to did something like 648/1285 IIRC. I think on the big displacement engines, they could go 700+ pretty easy with electronic controls.
The HE451ve I would think could go over 650hp...it's a 64mm compressor IIRC.
I'll send you one if you want to try one...if you like it, then we can talk about the cost. If not, you're out the shipping and fab work...
Chris
12-07-2011, 05:48 PM
#21
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Thanks Chris. Im not going to say no at this point.
Let me get some other stuff in place, the AD, studs etc while continuing to figure out what I want to do with the turbo setup. We'll talk about it then.
I def want to have the studs in place before I do anything else...
Let me get some other stuff in place, the AD, studs etc while continuing to figure out what I want to do with the turbo setup. We'll talk about it then.
I def want to have the studs in place before I do anything else...
12-08-2011, 12:33 AM
#22
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blake, check these out. talk to brian if you choose to go this route. can keep the brake and run a larger single
http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p...l-cummins.aspx
http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p...l-cummins.aspx
12-08-2011, 09:00 AM
#23
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Blake you can find a S364/73 T-4 for $600. Not quite as spendy as those other VGT.
I would ask what impeller they are using and how is it fixed to the shaft. If they are using a sleeve or bushing, buy somewhere else.
Be careful which HE441, HE451 and HE551 you select, lots of big inch hiway truck use them, aka big turbine housings and big turbine wheels.
I would just go the cheaper route, if you go though a bunch of towing, just throw the old VGT back on. It will take around 0.5 to 1 hr to install.
If you want to spend money those GT3788R stage 3 for a 3rd gen are nice. Will bolt up to the stock exhaust. Its a true 63.8mm inducer, the S364 is 62.8mm. The 71mm is more for smaller inch engines, like the 5.9L. The 73mm will work better on the 6.7L, and are priced better. Ran a few S366/73 on a few tweaked 12V trucks this year.
I would ask what impeller they are using and how is it fixed to the shaft. If they are using a sleeve or bushing, buy somewhere else.
Be careful which HE441, HE451 and HE551 you select, lots of big inch hiway truck use them, aka big turbine housings and big turbine wheels.
I would just go the cheaper route, if you go though a bunch of towing, just throw the old VGT back on. It will take around 0.5 to 1 hr to install.
If you want to spend money those GT3788R stage 3 for a 3rd gen are nice. Will bolt up to the stock exhaust. Its a true 63.8mm inducer, the S364 is 62.8mm. The 71mm is more for smaller inch engines, like the 5.9L. The 73mm will work better on the 6.7L, and are priced better. Ran a few S366/73 on a few tweaked 12V trucks this year.
12-10-2011, 08:52 AM
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It will work, but you will be at the outer limits for durablity limits for the rods and pistons for the stock driveline. I would try to stay under 700-800rwhp, until you address a few 6.7 issues. I would also run an earlier 5.9L open face coolant pump.
I personally just run the S366/73 T-4, first off its cheap. $500-600 for the turbo. Steed makes a wickedly nice exhaust manifold.
http://www.steedspeed.com/cummins_diesel_t6_manifold
If you still going bust the head off the block, I would install one of these intakes
http://www.zzcustomfabrication.com/6..._entrance.html
The hamilton 188/220 cam is very nice. Upgrade the valve springs, as EFI live will be out soon. Done right, you would be able to rev smoothly till 5000 rpm's.
I'm going to run R&R rods in my 6.7L, but I'm putting that engine into my 02 truck.
I'm planning on running a 13mm pump and a aftermarket head. Hoping to build a wicked set of twins for the truck as well. Really want to run the GT5541R for my primary. S595 are abit laggy.
I personally just run the S366/73 T-4, first off its cheap. $500-600 for the turbo. Steed makes a wickedly nice exhaust manifold.
http://www.steedspeed.com/cummins_diesel_t6_manifold
If you still going bust the head off the block, I would install one of these intakes
http://www.zzcustomfabrication.com/6..._entrance.html
The hamilton 188/220 cam is very nice. Upgrade the valve springs, as EFI live will be out soon. Done right, you would be able to rev smoothly till 5000 rpm's.
I'm going to run R&R rods in my 6.7L, but I'm putting that engine into my 02 truck.
I'm planning on running a 13mm pump and a aftermarket head. Hoping to build a wicked set of twins for the truck as well. Really want to run the GT5541R for my primary. S595 are abit laggy.
12-10-2011, 05:06 PM
#26
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I like those SteedSpeed manifolds. Have seen those before.
Mike, all thing being as close to equal as possible, whats the difference between an S366 and an S466?
Not looking to go much over 600 on the top side. DD for about 400-425.
Ive got an email out to Fleece performance. They have a 2nd gen manifold kit that is drop in. Caleb there is recommending a Billet S466. Everyone I keep talking to that runs aftermarket on the 6.7 says you can take the conventional 5.9 turbo logic and toss it out of the window. The 6.7, with minor mods, will spool massive turbos till the cows come home.
Still reading and trying to decipher stuff. My brain is spinning faster than a durn turbo at full boost!
Mike, all thing being as close to equal as possible, whats the difference between an S366 and an S466?
Not looking to go much over 600 on the top side. DD for about 400-425.
Ive got an email out to Fleece performance. They have a 2nd gen manifold kit that is drop in. Caleb there is recommending a Billet S466. Everyone I keep talking to that runs aftermarket on the 6.7 says you can take the conventional 5.9 turbo logic and toss it out of the window. The 6.7, with minor mods, will spool massive turbos till the cows come home.
Still reading and trying to decipher stuff. My brain is spinning faster than a durn turbo at full boost!
12-10-2011, 07:56 PM
#27
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Everything should be almost drop in. The S466 is slightly bigger turbo, the compressor housing and turbine housings are different. The turbine wheel is different. The S466 is a smaller inducer S472 turbo. The S400 frame turbo have better radial/thrust bearing design and turbine shaft design than the S300 frames. There is more interia to spin in a S466 turbo than S366. With the housing bigger, you'll be able to make more power than a S366, but there will be a trade off. The S466 is more laggy than S366. With EFI coming soon, any turbo will become streetable, without all that typical black smoke that you get running a big single. Guys are running even bigger turbos on both the 5.9 or 6.7L these days than what did a few years ago.
If you really only looking for 500-600rwhp, a S364/73 would be lots of turbo. I would run the S366, as they have proven to be able to support nearly 1000rwhp, on spray and with an external gate. Seen tons of 5.9L run S366 to 700-800rwhp on fuel. We run the S366/73 on 12V 5.9L 4k gsk truck around here, so its streetable. I would run a T-4 housing turbo myself, forget about T-3 stuff.
Drop in is easy, just get a exhaust down pipe for a 2nd gen, if you buy a 2nd gen manifold. You'll need at least a 4in outlet for the exhaust. Not sold on most of those aftermarket cold air boxes. Most cause more issues than what good they are.
If you really only looking for 500-600rwhp, a S364/73 would be lots of turbo. I would run the S366, as they have proven to be able to support nearly 1000rwhp, on spray and with an external gate. Seen tons of 5.9L run S366 to 700-800rwhp on fuel. We run the S366/73 on 12V 5.9L 4k gsk truck around here, so its streetable. I would run a T-4 housing turbo myself, forget about T-3 stuff.
Drop in is easy, just get a exhaust down pipe for a 2nd gen, if you buy a 2nd gen manifold. You'll need at least a 4in outlet for the exhaust. Not sold on most of those aftermarket cold air boxes. Most cause more issues than what good they are.
12-12-2011, 06:27 PM
#28
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Ok Mike
After enough reading to earn a BS in flowometry I think I settled on a setup. Billet S466 with a T4 Steed manifold. They make some impressive stuff.
Talked with several guys that have done a bunch of trucks like this and said that it will tow perfect on a 6.7 and leave me some room to grow, cause even though I say I only want 600ish Im probably gonna get the itch...
After enough reading to earn a BS in flowometry I think I settled on a setup. Billet S466 with a T4 Steed manifold. They make some impressive stuff.
Talked with several guys that have done a bunch of trucks like this and said that it will tow perfect on a 6.7 and leave me some room to grow, cause even though I say I only want 600ish Im probably gonna get the itch...
12-13-2011, 05:42 PM
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Ok Mike
After enough reading to earn a BS in flowometry I think I settled on a setup. Billet S466 with a T4 Steed manifold. They make some impressive stuff.
Talked with several guys that have done a bunch of trucks like this and said that it will tow perfect on a 6.7 and leave me some room to grow, cause even though I say I only want 600ish Im probably gonna get the itch...
After enough reading to earn a BS in flowometry I think I settled on a setup. Billet S466 with a T4 Steed manifold. They make some impressive stuff.
Talked with several guys that have done a bunch of trucks like this and said that it will tow perfect on a 6.7 and leave me some room to grow, cause even though I say I only want 600ish Im probably gonna get the itch...
Tobin