and what are the risks?

I have a 305/555 and have never had issues with HP. I'm towing heavier now and honestly a little more power more would come in handy. In my model year the stock engine went to 325/600 so I'd guess it shouldn't be that tough to get the extra 20HP with no risks (I mean, DC only reprogrammed it right)?

I had not investigated the boxes and downloaders until now and I always assumed that there was info on what each one did, how it did it and what that tweak might break? But now that I'm looking it's hard to figure out. I'm not looking for proprietary info here - but at a high level, what is being done and what are the pros and cons of the different approaches?

I've seen the warning to get a pyro (I have one post-turbo) and make sure that you don't overheat running modified. Got that... makes sense.

Do some mods put the CP3 at risk? (that's costly) Do the boxes change injection events? other fueling parameters? What else can/should be tuned and who is doing what?

In a perfect world I'd like something cheap, easy to install and use, with minimal risk to my truck, that could give me moderate HP gains and possibly even fuel economy gains when not towing. The box that keeps coming to mind is a SmartyJr... but I think there must be other choices and more I should know? Anyone with some info and patience to help me learn? (or just point me to sites, other threads etc... )

 

not true. 305 motors and 325 motors are more different than programming...
the 325/600 were only program different from 325/610 motors.

your 305 doesnt have a catalytic convertor, the 325's do. 325's have more injector squirts per firing than yours does. so a change of program will not make yours a stock 325.

yes, a module will easily and safely get you another 40hp, if that's what you are looking for.

but, boxes(modules) do not program. the take sensor outputs, modify them so the factory ecm and programming make more power.
programmers(smarty jr) do change the programming. smarty jr is a great entry level programmer.

 

If looking for the safest towing chip the Smarty jr would prob fit the bill the best, moderate power increase while keeping the EGTs low. A TS MP-8 is also a nice increase in power that is adjustable on the fly with a variable reostate ****, but it adds power with just increasing rail pressure. In which I wouldn't want to run a truck with all the added rail pressure all the time, it wears on the injector bodys, while the Smarty jr rewrites the ECM programing adding power prob a lil safer then just a strait pressure box. Plus you can read/clear codes and adjust for different tire sizes to correct your speedo with the Smarty.

Brett

 

Sounds like you want the SAFEST power adder you can get which usually equals the Banks units. I know a low of people on here greatly dislike the Banks stuff, but I'll be one to suggest it. It's super safe for your truck and adjustable on the fly. I spent a lot of time prior to buying a power adder doing a lot of research and speaking to every companies tech service over the phone. The Banks stuff is a little more expensive, doesn't make as much power at the Smarty is able, but it is the safest and has the best customner service that I dealt with when speaking to the various companies.

 

OK... yes I knew about the cat, and for that matter the changed lift pump, and the the way the tow/haul switch works. But between 2004my and 2004.5+my there are fundamental changes in the engine that add power and torque? I can't imagine the the cat or lift pump change power at all. I can imagine that the injection events can change a lot but I thought that was computer controlled (hence reprogrammable).

I'm still not clear on what tweaks the downloaders and boxes are making? What is the nature of the tuning to add power? What is the risk?

 

OK.. Lets clear the first thing up.

A "Chip" "Box" or "Module" are completely different animals from a "Programmer".

When you speak of the Smarty Jr or any handheld device that plugs into the ALDL port under the dash, these are "Programmers" or "Downloaders".

"Chips", "Boxes", and "Modules" are devices that are installed inline with various sensors and the ECM to modify the value that the ECM recieves. Thus basically "Fooling" the ECM into changing parameters to increase power. Such devices are the TST, Certain Banks Products, Edze EZ, and etc.

OK... Now. Each of these devices have certain benefits and downfalls.

I myself don't like the idea of basically Tricking the ECM by feeding it false readings. (This is again what the "Chips" do to make power.) Although in my application you kinda gotta have it to make the extra power.

On the other hand these devices usually offer benefits that the "Downloaders" do not. Such as EGT backdown, boost limiting and so on.

Downloaders reprogram the entire ECM to place better tuning in the ECM's tables. I consider this the better way in my opinion. There is no trickery going on. It's all hard code that cannot be goofed up or misinterpereted by the ECM. (As long as the designer has done their job that is!)

So now onto the next part of your question...

ALL of these devices modify basically three things as far as MAKING power...

First off is Injection Timing. Usually advancing to a certain degree.

Next is Injection Duration. This is essentially how long the Injector stays open.

Third is Injection Pressure. If you put higher pressure water into your garden hose you get more water volume out the end. Works the same in our trucks. It also has the added side effect of better atomization.

Most of the time you are not going to find a company who will share exactly what they have changed or how much. So don't even bother with that. Just know that if you choose a programmer most of the time you won't be able to hurt anything. (AS LONG AS YOU USE YOUR BRAIN!!) as for some of the boxes on the market, they can be VERY tricky and easy to do damage with.

So in your case I would honestly recommend a downloader of some type. If I were to point to one specifically... Smarty Jr.

I hope this helped answer some of your questions.

I'll try to check back in if you need more assistance.

 

They modify injector timing, pulse duration, and fuel rail pressure. They can also modify torque management and transmission programming.

Risks on lower power levels are minimal IMHO. Going up the power scale, you can run into high EGT's and melted pistons, too much timing resulting in stress on bearings and head gaskets, overstressing injectors w/ too much pressure, and more commonly, downstream drivetrain failures. Stock clutches and transmissions won't like the newfound power and torque of the Cummins on the higher settings.

With a very good and comprehensive programmer like a Smarty Sr., all by itself, you can probably exceed 450 hp and 775 ft lbs of torque. Unless you plan on doing other modifications to handle that kind of power, a Smarty Jr. would probably be your best bet. They have 3 settings, maxing out at 100 additional hp, as opposed to literally hundreds or thousands of possible combinations of settings on the Smarty Sr. (5 basic power levels (10 if you count w/added timing and w/o) with various (4) adjustments of all parameters mentioned above in any combination.)

Oh yeah, there are also currently 2 basic publicly available Smarty programs (Revo and TNT) for that unit, all with the available combinations mentioned above, plus as many as half a dozen available Beta versions and a full race unit (TNT-R) that together with appropriate modifcations will let your engine pull to 4,000 rpms and produce twice or maybe even 3 times or more times your currently available hp and torque.

 

I have the Smarty Jr and it is exactly what you want. It has three levels of programming and leaves no footprint in the ECM. I run on SW#1 most of the time. I use SW#2 when towing my very heavy Weekend Warrior at around 12K loaded. I have used SW#3 once and it was impressive.

The down-side of this programmer is that you can't change programs "on-the-fly". SW#2(towing) works very well (plus 70hp). It really levels out the hills.

 

THANKS, this confirms some of what I thought I understood and adds some of the info I was looking for. I was already leaning towards the downloader/re-programming approach. As I noted, I would have expected some info about what was being changed and cannot find anything as you said...

Off hand I'd guess that timing and duration changes are generally safe? Even if there are EGT issues to watch I suppose you can control that by backing off the pedal? I'm not real clear on what a timing change can accomplish? What are the trade-offs in timing and why wouldn't the engine already be optimized?

Pressure seems a risk at some point? The CP3 is making the pressure and increasing the duty cycle on the pump could surely lead to seals leaking and other mechanical failure in the pump...

I'm not longer worried about the ECM footprint issues because my warranty is over now - but it is nice NOT to be throwing codes etc from a messed up ECM.

Well... the Smarty Jr does seem like a good way to go. Install is just a plug-in I guess? Seems idiot proof (no wires to tap, connectors to remove). I see I am giving up on-the-fly tuning, but for towing that's OK. I know when I'll be towing and can set up the truck in advance along with the other things I do already (remove tonneau cover, air up the tires, air up the bags etc).

Any other feedback and experiences out there? Everyone has had good experiences with "mild" tuning?

btw - so far of people I've met who had failures after tuning... they all admitted that they tried to max things out and got carried away with the fun of spinning tires, blowing smoke, going fast etc. In my own way I suppose I'm pushing the truck too... I just want to see it climb hills towing high and heavy... not exactly racing it - but pushing it hard I know.

 

To add to what I was saying about the Smarty Jr.................When set for towing (SW#2) and towing your trailer, as you start into a hill and add a little throttle to maintain road speed, the boost starts to come up along with the EGT. You can feel and hear the engine start to build more power than stock. The stock turbo will boost to about 38lbs max (the stock program holds the boost to about 25lbs), but you will want to watch the pyro. It builds heat in a hurry and I have had to back off the throttle a bit for peace-of-mind. I knew it would react that way from what I read about the Smarty Jr, so I installed the gauge kit to monitor what was going on under the hood. But it pulls hard and is nice to pull a heavy load.

I suspect that the Smarty Jr is changing injection timing and pulse width as well as changing the boost maximum. I don't think it increases rail pressure.
With a stock set-up, you don't want to increase rail pressure. It is hard on the stock injectors. This programmer is perfect in my opinion for a tow rig where you are not trying to rotate the earth. It's safe for the engine and safe for the drivetrain.

 

DaveLinde asked: "What are the trade-offs in timing and why wouldn't the engine already be optimized?"

The answer is that the engine IS already optimized! It's optimized for meeting the emissions specs of its model year with performance and efficiency coming in second and third place (or at least somewhere that is not #1). Aftermarket programmers put performance/efficiency first and emissions control second. If they worry about emissions at all, its generally visible smoke.

 

Might want to find a member with a smarty jr in your area and do a test drive....i'll guarantee you buy one...I have the smarty senior, but used it on level 3 (60hp) until i got more supporting mods....this is my first diesel / programmer / ....and it's easy as anything.....on the 60/70hp level, you'll love the noticible difference, and it's easy on your truck, you wont hurt anything on those levels, and the drivability improvement is outstanding...good luck with the decision.

 

That stumps me... when I bought the truck I asked "what is the EPA economy rating" and I was told that there are no numbers published for these trucks... OK... so the FED gov won't make them test to tell me about economy.

When I brought it in for inspection at the state I asked "what are the tests I must pass" and was told that there are no tests for diesel engines in non-commercial trucks.

Seems like it should be OK to reprogram it as long as I don't remove stuff?


dunno - to me it's a CRIME to mandate some kind of device that makes me burn MORE fuel in the hope that I'll emit LESS of something else. It does not seem like there are any engineers involved in this?