Water injection
04-21-2009, 02:15 PM
#16
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Denver,
To answer your question to me the twins are being constructed right now and as soon as Tim gets them he will get the truck for what I hope to be the final phase before take off to a track and dyno event. Never done either one since I bought it in 2004. Should be a hoot.
All,
As far as the water injection I know that you dont want to run too much meth and if you have twins that will cause problems, not sure why. I usually run regular washer fluid in mine but I dont run it with the higher settings on the Smarty, just regular water.
To answer your question to me the twins are being constructed right now and as soon as Tim gets them he will get the truck for what I hope to be the final phase before take off to a track and dyno event. Never done either one since I bought it in 2004. Should be a hoot.
All,
As far as the water injection I know that you dont want to run too much meth and if you have twins that will cause problems, not sure why. I usually run regular washer fluid in mine but I dont run it with the higher settings on the Smarty, just regular water.
04-22-2009, 06:30 AM
#18
Administrator
Denver,
To answer your question to me the twins are being constructed right now and as soon as Tim gets them he will get the truck for what I hope to be the final phase before take off to a track and dyno event. Never done either one since I bought it in 2004. Should be a hoot.
All,
As far as the water injection I know that you dont want to run too much meth and if you have twins that will cause problems, not sure why. I usually run regular washer fluid in mine but I dont run it with the higher settings on the Smarty, just regular water.
To answer your question to me the twins are being constructed right now and as soon as Tim gets them he will get the truck for what I hope to be the final phase before take off to a track and dyno event. Never done either one since I bought it in 2004. Should be a hoot.
All,
As far as the water injection I know that you dont want to run too much meth and if you have twins that will cause problems, not sure why. I usually run regular washer fluid in mine but I dont run it with the higher settings on the Smarty, just regular water.
gdh:
Glad to hear Tim is getting your truck set-up for you.
On the issue of running water with twins and it causing problems,......that one you have me baffled on?? I have been running water injection with twins for almost five years now with no problems and Tim also is doing it on his race truck. Is it the methanol that they causes the problems maybe?? That I could see as I have said before that IMHO the methanol is somewhat corrosive. Thanks.
04-22-2009, 07:24 PM
#20
Administrator
#1 FAN:
Let me try to give you my opinion on your question about the water/meth and why some trucks like it and some don't.
As you are probably aware, the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines as I have in my 1996, have mechanical or "fixed" timing. These engines are not "fly-by-wire" or electronically controlled as the 98.5'-2002 24 valve engines or Cummins CR Engines are. On a Cummins 5.9 12 valve engine, if you have the timing set high (say at 20-25 degrees) it is 20-25 degrees at idle and 25 degrees at WOT. On the early 24 valve and later CR engines, there is "variable" or electronic timing controlled by the ECM through inputs from the APPS, camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor etc. So, you may be at say 8-9 degrees at idle and then as you accelerate, the timing is advanced up. IMHO,....with the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines, because of that "mechanical or fixed" timing, if you are running high timing (like I am) that condition "aggravates" the "detonation" I described above. I can tell you I had it BAD on my 96'.
However, some 12 valve owners I know who are running water/methanol have told me they have not experienced the "detonation" that I have, but I also know many more guys who DO get it just like me if they get too high with the timing. Now until I became acquainted with Robert (Rpainter) I had not really talked to anyone with a Dodge CTD CR Truck that had experienced this "detonation" we are talking about. BUT,....Robert will get it in his truck if he runs a water/
methanol mixture. Robert was really the first DTR Member that I have heard that from and he and I have had many conversations by way of P.M.'s about this subject here on DTR. Robert can give you all the particulars on the boxes or programmers he is running on his truck. I think that MAY have something to do with it, because as you may be aware, some of them can and do raise the timing and rail pressure pretty substantially on the CR trucks.
I hope that explanation has helped you some #1 FAN!
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John_P
04-22-2009, 07:39 PM
#21
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Running my stage 3 dr performance I probally shouldnt run any meth then because i think its pretty aggressive with my crazy larry. what do you guys think.
04-22-2009, 07:54 PM
#22
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clndesl:
I would recommend trying everything out and as you are hammering the truck, try to listen for that "detonation" as I described. Believe me, you will hear it when it happens.
04-22-2009, 09:39 PM
#24
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
clndesl:
Yes,.....I would start out with smaller amounts of the methanol and work your way up from there. On my 96', I would get the detonation with as little as 20% mixture. When I ran the water/methanol mixture, I always bought the methanol and then mixed it myself WITH distilled water. IMHO,.....you get a more accurate mixture that way. I feel that the windshield washer fluid like you buy at "Wal-Mart" for example has too much variation from bottle to bottle, but there are Members here that probably would not agree with that, which is fine.
clndesl:
Yes,.....I would start out with smaller amounts of the methanol and work your way up from there. On my 96', I would get the detonation with as little as 20% mixture. When I ran the water/methanol mixture, I always bought the methanol and then mixed it myself WITH distilled water. IMHO,.....you get a more accurate mixture that way. I feel that the windshield washer fluid like you buy at "Wal-Mart" for example has too much variation from bottle to bottle, but there are Members here that probably would not agree with that, which is fine.
04-22-2009, 10:54 PM
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-----------------------------------------
#1 FAN:
Let me try to give you my opinion on your question about the water/meth and why some trucks like it and some don't.
As you are probably aware, the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines as I have in my 1996, have mechanical or "fixed" timing. These engines are not "fly-by-wire" or electronically controlled as the 98.5'-2002 24 valve engines or Cummins CR Engines are. On a Cummins 5.9 12 valve engine, if you have the timing set high (say at 20-25 degrees) it is 20-25 degrees at idle and 25 degrees at WOT. On the early 24 valve and later CR engines, there is "variable" or electronic timing controlled by the ECM through inputs from the APPS, camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor etc. So, you may be at say 8-9 degrees at idle and then as you accelerate, the timing is advanced up. IMHO,....with the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines, because of that "mechanical or fixed" timing, if you are running high timing (like I am) that condition "aggravates" the "detonation" I described above. I can tell you I had it BAD on my 96'. However, some 12 valve owners I know who are running water/methanol have told me they have not experienced the "detonation" that I have, but I also know many more guys who DO get it just like me if they get too high with the timing.
Now until I became acquainted with Robert (Rpainter) I had not really talked to anyone with a Dodge CTD CR Truck that had experienced this "detonation" we are talking about. BUT,....Robert will get it in his truck if he runs a water/
methanol mixture. Robert was really the first DTR Member that I have heard that from and he and I have had many conversations by way of P.M.'s about this subject here on DTR. Robert can give you all the particulars on the boxes or programmers he is running on his truck. I think that MAY have something to do with it, because as you may be aware, some of them can and do raise the timing and rail pressure pretty substantially on the CR trucks.
I hope that explanation has helped you some #1 FAN!
--------
John_P
#1 FAN:
Let me try to give you my opinion on your question about the water/meth and why some trucks like it and some don't.
As you are probably aware, the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines as I have in my 1996, have mechanical or "fixed" timing. These engines are not "fly-by-wire" or electronically controlled as the 98.5'-2002 24 valve engines or Cummins CR Engines are. On a Cummins 5.9 12 valve engine, if you have the timing set high (say at 20-25 degrees) it is 20-25 degrees at idle and 25 degrees at WOT. On the early 24 valve and later CR engines, there is "variable" or electronic timing controlled by the ECM through inputs from the APPS, camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor etc. So, you may be at say 8-9 degrees at idle and then as you accelerate, the timing is advanced up. IMHO,....with the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines, because of that "mechanical or fixed" timing, if you are running high timing (like I am) that condition "aggravates" the "detonation" I described above. I can tell you I had it BAD on my 96'.
However, some 12 valve owners I know who are running water/methanol have told me they have not experienced the "detonation" that I have, but I also know many more guys who DO get it just like me if they get too high with the timing. Now until I became acquainted with Robert (Rpainter) I had not really talked to anyone with a Dodge CTD CR Truck that had experienced this "detonation" we are talking about. BUT,....Robert will get it in his truck if he runs a water/
methanol mixture. Robert was really the first DTR Member that I have heard that from and he and I have had many conversations by way of P.M.'s about this subject here on DTR. Robert can give you all the particulars on the boxes or programmers he is running on his truck. I think that MAY have something to do with it, because as you may be aware, some of them can and do raise the timing and rail pressure pretty substantially on the CR trucks.
I hope that explanation has helped you some #1 FAN!
--------
John_P
John_P
That was what i was thinking to much timing and over fueling. If i lower the timing i loose all the get up and go, so i don't know. It seems that if you can't burn all the fuel that the w/m gets drowned out but i don't know.
04-23-2009, 08:07 AM
#26
Administrator
#1 FAN:
Contrary to what some may say, IMHO, you do have to "tune" the water systems. By that, I mean finding the "optimum" jets for the nozzles so that when the water comes on you are cooling the engine, but not adding so much that you "quench" or "stall" the engine. From my experiences over the last five years or so, it can be a very fine line. I think my buddy Robert
(Rpainter) would tell you that too as he and I had alot of conversations when he was getting his system "dialed-in." Be glad you are not in my position. I
now have five (5) nozzles with my Scheid Water System and my water pump is MUCH bigger than my old Snow Water Pump, capable of pushing over 800 psi of water pressure if I need it to!
Start out with the smaller jets and one(1) nozzle and then work your way up from there. While doing that,... record your EGT's both before and after and listen real carefully to your engine to see and hear where it is performing the best. I can tell you, it is a "trial and error" thing. The major water injection companies like Snow, Cooling Mist, Devils Own etc. can get you in the "ballpark" to start out, but IMO, each truck still needs to be "tuned-in" as I said above. Once you get your system and get it installed send myself or Robert a P.M. and we will try to help you all we can #1 FAN!
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John_P
04-23-2009, 12:48 PM
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You can make your own kit for about half that; http://members.***.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html has anyone seen this site?
04-23-2009, 02:12 PM
#28
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John,
I should have clarified my comments a little better, Tim recommends no meth when running tiwns, straight water is okay from what I understood. I am looking forward to the twins and twin injection pumps going in sometime in May. I will let you know how it works with water.
I should have clarified my comments a little better, Tim recommends no meth when running tiwns, straight water is okay from what I understood. I am looking forward to the twins and twin injection pumps going in sometime in May. I will let you know how it works with water.
04-23-2009, 02:25 PM
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Just an update i should be getting my stage 2 cooling mist today so hopefully i will have it on tonight so i can start tuning. I got a great deal on the kit from cooling mist so i went for their progressive kit. now I just have to figure out how to make it all work.
04-23-2009, 04:04 PM
#30
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John,
I should have clarified my comments a little better, Tim recommends no meth when running tiwns, straight water is okay from what I understood. I am looking forward to the twins and twin injection pumps going in sometime in May. I will let you know how it works with water.
I should have clarified my comments a little better, Tim recommends no meth when running tiwns, straight water is okay from what I understood. I am looking forward to the twins and twin injection pumps going in sometime in May. I will let you know how it works with water.
gdh:
Oh O.K.,.....that sounds better buddy!
You had me "baffled" in that other post! Like Tim, I am running just straight water with the anti-rust additive too.Good luck on your upgrades!