PowerMaxCR
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,311
Likes: 52
From: Holly Ridge, N.C.
_____________________________________________
Quotes by "GeorgiaCracker:"
"There is general agreement that Mark Chapple and his
guys are speaking falsely when they say they have two
trucks, a 2003 and 2004 that will run on 9/9 with just
transmission mods and a pusher pump."
"It is hard to believe that Mark did drive a truck with the
box for a few months prior to the release of the product."
_____________________________________________
I have known Mark Chapple and his family since 1997 and
want you to know that they are some of the nicest people
in the diesel performance business, regardless of what you
may think at this time! I have watched and talked with Mark,
Gina, Scott and Greg along with their entire family since they
began the R&D on the TST CR Fueling Box and know firsthand
that:
#1.) They do have the trucks you listed and they do run them
not only on their dyno but also under ALL conditions on the
streets and highways all over the State of indiana and
elsewhere!!
#2.) Not only did Mark drive those trucks with the "actual"
TST CR Fueling Boxes in the trucks, I also saw them (at
"Thunder in Muncie" last year (03')) with the large "batter/
bread" board" (section of wood plywood board with the
electronics attached to it and all visible) doing extensive
testing and recording of information!!! That went on for
a LONG TIME by he and his entire staff!! So,.......you may
not believe it,.........BUT,.......I personally saw it myself!!
As Rod said,......."the performance shops asked TST to deliver
a performance box with monster fueling****the torpedos!"
Good point Rod!!
Now everyone is complaining!!
My son recently bought a 2004 Dodge CTD CR and as
soon as he gets ready for a performance fueling box
he will be buying the TST CR Fueling Box!! Heck,...
for the "faint of heart" there will always be the
Banks Boxes available!!
No disrespect intended to anyone including you "Georgia
Cracker" but,......."a man has to know his limitations!!"
----------
John_P
Quotes by "GeorgiaCracker:"
"There is general agreement that Mark Chapple and his
guys are speaking falsely when they say they have two
trucks, a 2003 and 2004 that will run on 9/9 with just
transmission mods and a pusher pump."
"It is hard to believe that Mark did drive a truck with the
box for a few months prior to the release of the product."
_____________________________________________
I have known Mark Chapple and his family since 1997 and
want you to know that they are some of the nicest people
in the diesel performance business, regardless of what you
may think at this time! I have watched and talked with Mark,
Gina, Scott and Greg along with their entire family since they
began the R&D on the TST CR Fueling Box and know firsthand
that:
#1.) They do have the trucks you listed and they do run them
not only on their dyno but also under ALL conditions on the
streets and highways all over the State of indiana and
elsewhere!!
#2.) Not only did Mark drive those trucks with the "actual"
TST CR Fueling Boxes in the trucks, I also saw them (at
"Thunder in Muncie" last year (03')) with the large "batter/
bread" board" (section of wood plywood board with the
electronics attached to it and all visible) doing extensive
testing and recording of information!!! That went on for
a LONG TIME by he and his entire staff!! So,.......you may
not believe it,.........BUT,.......I personally saw it myself!!
As Rod said,......."the performance shops asked TST to deliver
a performance box with monster fueling****the torpedos!"
Good point Rod!!
Now everyone is complaining!! My son recently bought a 2004 Dodge CTD CR and as
soon as he gets ready for a performance fueling box
he will be buying the TST CR Fueling Box!! Heck,...
for the "faint of heart" there will always be the
Banks Boxes available!!
No disrespect intended to anyone including you "Georgia
Cracker" but,......."a man has to know his limitations!!"
----------
John_P
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
John_P,
Thanks for contributing your support of Mark's marketing statements. My comments were rhetorical and purposefully inflamatory. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that their is a lot of contradictory information about the PWRMax.
Many posts here have criticized Mark for poor (perhaps false) advertising saying the PWRMax cannot be used with stock exhaust, intake, etc. Other statements, even in this thread have said that all his figures are dyno generated (implying that the module on a stock truck with transmission mods and pusher pump would generate unusable EGTs,etc.).
So, in addition to the group that is contradicting Mark by saying they did not use the module in the real world, there is a second group that is saying that the only way you can use the module is with a large, slow spooling turbo or twins, o-ringed heads, etc.
Mark is saying that you can use his box at 9/9 with about $3000 worth of mods plus the cost of the box. Others are saying it will take about $10,000-12,000 to use the power. I rely on this board for useful, factual information that will help me make decisions. We are all using this as a "Consumer Reports" for aftermarket products.
When opinions are all over the map and each expressed with authority, it gets confusing to an uneducated novice like myself. I appreciate your support for Marks integrity, I hope I have a friend that will support my integrity so convincingly.
There is no doubt that Mark has designed what everyone has asked for. The key points of discussion revolve around what type of setup can optimize the product.
The original discussion was precipitated by my talking with someone at TST who said that they were running 9/9 with a stock turbo, exhaust, intake, a pusher pump and transmission mods. They said they had not blown any turbos. I believed him. Then folks on this board said, bull****. Thats dynoed numbers. You need ...... So, I am thinking there is some missing information.
I believe that the folks blowing turbos may have mitigating causal factors. Just trying to get cause and effect clarified.
Thanks for contributing your support of Mark's marketing statements. My comments were rhetorical and purposefully inflamatory. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that their is a lot of contradictory information about the PWRMax.
Many posts here have criticized Mark for poor (perhaps false) advertising saying the PWRMax cannot be used with stock exhaust, intake, etc. Other statements, even in this thread have said that all his figures are dyno generated (implying that the module on a stock truck with transmission mods and pusher pump would generate unusable EGTs,etc.).
So, in addition to the group that is contradicting Mark by saying they did not use the module in the real world, there is a second group that is saying that the only way you can use the module is with a large, slow spooling turbo or twins, o-ringed heads, etc.
Mark is saying that you can use his box at 9/9 with about $3000 worth of mods plus the cost of the box. Others are saying it will take about $10,000-12,000 to use the power. I rely on this board for useful, factual information that will help me make decisions. We are all using this as a "Consumer Reports" for aftermarket products.
When opinions are all over the map and each expressed with authority, it gets confusing to an uneducated novice like myself. I appreciate your support for Marks integrity, I hope I have a friend that will support my integrity so convincingly.
There is no doubt that Mark has designed what everyone has asked for. The key points of discussion revolve around what type of setup can optimize the product.
The original discussion was precipitated by my talking with someone at TST who said that they were running 9/9 with a stock turbo, exhaust, intake, a pusher pump and transmission mods. They said they had not blown any turbos. I believed him. Then folks on this board said, bull****. Thats dynoed numbers. You need ...... So, I am thinking there is some missing information.
I believe that the folks blowing turbos may have mitigating causal factors. Just trying to get cause and effect clarified.
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,311
Likes: 52
From: Holly Ridge, N.C.
GeorgiaCracker:
Thanks for your reply!
In reading your response I guess what the all the owners/
members of the new Dodge CTD CR Trucks and the older
first and second generation trucks need to really remember
is "use common sense" with these type of products!! As you
pointed out at the end of your most recent post, "there
probably are "mitigating causal factors!" Yes "Georgia" I
am sure of that!! One that comes immediately to my mind
is; "wow, this TST box sure has alot of power on level 5/5,
I wonder how it will feel on level 9/9??"
This thread made me think back to my purchase of my 2002
Dodge CTD late last year. I knew I was going to modify the
truck (more H.P. and more torque) but also knew that
BEFORE I did that I needed to address the fuel system
and auto transmission on that truck! Personally, I would
not even added Mark's TST PM 3 to my truck before doing that!
After having been doing this diesel performance thing for a
few years now, I know that there are guys out there that
think they can just "slap on" a 150 H.P. fueling box and a set
of 100 H.P. injectors and they will be O.K.! You can't do that
to performance cars or to diesel trucks. For example, I would
say look at what Lingenfelter Engineering recommends on their
"upgrades" and "performance packages" for Corvettes, Camaros,
Vipers etc. or what Scheid Diesel, Haisley Machine, Piers Diesel
or Rod and Scotty @ Wildcat Diesel recommends for a
high performance street truck, diesel drag racer or a
weekend sled puller.
Realistically, I don't think the 47RE, 48RE, NV4500/
NV5600 can take much more than 650-700ft.lbs. of
torque before they begin to reach their "limits"
regardless of what some of the owners say.
In summary, Mark Chapple and his entire staff at TST have done
a great job with their new fueling box and if the new owners
will use a little "common sense" and follow some of TST/TST
Vendors recommendations I feel everyone will be alot
happier with their purchase!
---------
John_P
Thanks for your reply!
In reading your response I guess what the all the owners/
members of the new Dodge CTD CR Trucks and the older
first and second generation trucks need to really remember
is "use common sense" with these type of products!! As you
pointed out at the end of your most recent post, "there
probably are "mitigating causal factors!" Yes "Georgia" I
am sure of that!! One that comes immediately to my mind
is; "wow, this TST box sure has alot of power on level 5/5,
I wonder how it will feel on level 9/9??"
This thread made me think back to my purchase of my 2002
Dodge CTD late last year. I knew I was going to modify the
truck (more H.P. and more torque) but also knew that
BEFORE I did that I needed to address the fuel system
and auto transmission on that truck! Personally, I would
not even added Mark's TST PM 3 to my truck before doing that!
After having been doing this diesel performance thing for a
few years now, I know that there are guys out there that
think they can just "slap on" a 150 H.P. fueling box and a set
of 100 H.P. injectors and they will be O.K.! You can't do that
to performance cars or to diesel trucks. For example, I would
say look at what Lingenfelter Engineering recommends on their
"upgrades" and "performance packages" for Corvettes, Camaros,
Vipers etc. or what Scheid Diesel, Haisley Machine, Piers Diesel
or Rod and Scotty @ Wildcat Diesel recommends for a
high performance street truck, diesel drag racer or a
weekend sled puller.
Realistically, I don't think the 47RE, 48RE, NV4500/
NV5600 can take much more than 650-700ft.lbs. of
torque before they begin to reach their "limits"
regardless of what some of the owners say.
In summary, Mark Chapple and his entire staff at TST have done
a great job with their new fueling box and if the new owners
will use a little "common sense" and follow some of TST/TST
Vendors recommendations I feel everyone will be alot
happier with their purchase!
---------
John_P
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
From: Boise ID
those are great comments. I've always thought the TST box gave folks what they wanted and more control than any other box on the planet. it can mimick any other box's performance just by dialing it up. never understood any of the complaints that things on the truck break when you use them outside their intended operating range 
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 0
From: Drive till ya hit a Polar Bear, then go back 50 miles
Originally posted by GeorgiaCracker
So, I am thinking there is some missing information.
So, I am thinking there is some missing information.
With a stock turbo, pusher pump, and tranny mods, you could probably get a 1/4 mile out of the truck on 9x9 and WOT. Maybe even a half mile. Thats fine for racing, and would be considered usuable horsepower for racing, but, IMHO, definitely not usuable power for the street.
Rod
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Push Rod,
You may be right. I only want the extra power for passing on rural roads, passing on the x-way, and messing with Fords and Chevys on occasion. When towing, I might set the dial up just a bit, but I only tow about 8 to 9000 lbs. so I dont need a bunch.
I can govern my behavior well enough to avoid busting parts through abuse. I just dont want to blow a turbo in an 8 second run to 80 MPH.
I think the comments of your last post are a step forward in the clarification process. When discussing performance phenomena, it is beneficial to use terms whose definitions are commonly held.
This allows clear understanding and promotes learning from eachother.
At any rate, I am certainly in a learning mode and appreciate the time you and others take to discuss these issues with less experienced and less knowledgable members like myself.
You may be right. I only want the extra power for passing on rural roads, passing on the x-way, and messing with Fords and Chevys on occasion. When towing, I might set the dial up just a bit, but I only tow about 8 to 9000 lbs. so I dont need a bunch.
I can govern my behavior well enough to avoid busting parts through abuse. I just dont want to blow a turbo in an 8 second run to 80 MPH.
I think the comments of your last post are a step forward in the clarification process. When discussing performance phenomena, it is beneficial to use terms whose definitions are commonly held.
This allows clear understanding and promotes learning from eachother.
At any rate, I am certainly in a learning mode and appreciate the time you and others take to discuss these issues with less experienced and less knowledgable members like myself.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Divide, CO
Makes sense to me!
Originally posted by Ramasaur
Yah, TST is out to sell their product, its your truck and your pocketbook when the TST blows your turbo along with all the codes. If you want to run that much power, just upgrade your turbo, intake, tranny, & exhaust all at once.... With that much advertised power, what man wouldn't want to set it at 9/9 and romp around with it? What good is 9/9 if you can't safely use it.
I'm sure TST safely used it on 9/9 stock... maybe at idle? Stock cannot handle the 150HP and 500lbs torq without exceeding EGT's and trashing your tranny.
Their dyno is impressive, I actually almost went with them, until I realized the amount of people that are having problems throwing codes and turbos. This box isn't for the average Joe wanting to add some power, this is for the sled puller that has a modified truck that can handle all the power of this box. I just don't understand people buying this box and not being able to fully utilize its power? Just doesn't make sense. Granted I'll probably get slammed for this but its just my .02. Granted... I paid more for my mods than the TST powermax, but I can also use every drop of HP & TQ without blowing anything.... Man I must have got up on the wrong side of the bed....I need my
Yah, TST is out to sell their product, its your truck and your pocketbook when the TST blows your turbo along with all the codes. If you want to run that much power, just upgrade your turbo, intake, tranny, & exhaust all at once.... With that much advertised power, what man wouldn't want to set it at 9/9 and romp around with it? What good is 9/9 if you can't safely use it.
I'm sure TST safely used it on 9/9 stock... maybe at idle? Stock cannot handle the 150HP and 500lbs torq without exceeding EGT's and trashing your tranny.
Their dyno is impressive, I actually almost went with them, until I realized the amount of people that are having problems throwing codes and turbos. This box isn't for the average Joe wanting to add some power, this is for the sled puller that has a modified truck that can handle all the power of this box. I just don't understand people buying this box and not being able to fully utilize its power? Just doesn't make sense. Granted I'll probably get slammed for this but its just my .02. Granted... I paid more for my mods than the TST powermax, but I can also use every drop of HP & TQ without blowing anything.... Man I must have got up on the wrong side of the bed....I need my
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Posts: n/a
This will make me as popular as a turd in a punchbowl. I was going to buy one of the TST PowermaxCR boxes until...they promised it would be the first one out and in early January, they weren't out in early January. They said you can run the box on a stock truck...sure...halfway up the power level. I almost got cussed out when I asked if they had done any testing with an LP system, which by the way, has been reliable, cheap and powerful since the day I bought it. Now I have a box that can hit 126 HP on the upper setting which is only 24 HP away from the highest setting on the TST and I only hit a little over 1000 degrees and that is with my LP on. I am pretty sure my propane is cranking out more than 26 hp. I haven't blown anything up. So slam the Banks all you want but there are realistic alternatives out there to a box that will run your motor so hot that you will possibly trash a new and very expensive motor/turbo& tranny. This is just my opinion, but I dont think there are too many folks on this forum that went out to buy a $35-45K truck to turn around and run out to tear it up, and spend their money fixing things instead of running down the road. I have less than $3K in upgrades on my truck and am fairly confident that I can take a truck with a TST box and the same $$$ amount of upgrades. But what do I know.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 248
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From: Floor It Diesel
126HP is no where near what the TST PMCR puts out. They havent tried it with LPG because most of us dont run it.Its too hard on head gaskets when you start getting up in boost. I know that you cant run the TST box on 9/9 on a stock motor,turbo and lift pump, then again you cant do that with a Edge Comp box on 5/5 on an ISB 24v either! without running into egt problems. So whats the difference? I bet you cant even keep up with my truck and the TST PMCR. It runs WAY! to strong on the bottom-end. I raced a 00' edge drag comp DD2's and a PDR40. I pulled him SOOO hard of the line and walked HARD! away from him.
John
John
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Posts: n/a
Floor It,
126 HP is the max a Banks box will put out, thats 24 HP away from the max the TST box puts out. I can use every bit of 126 HP. Most trucks cannot use the 150HP the TST puts out, certainly not a stock truck, I notice you have an improved turbo and tranny in your truck. That is not a stock truck, your signature has made my point. TST, I am sure, makes a good box for racing and if you have about $5K or more to put into turbos and a tranny, since that is the case why isn't it marketed as a race box? Banks says you need to improve breathing for the truck to use their product, that is true, and you get very manageable EGT's for daily use. TST says it can go on a stock truck which is just not true, unless you have it only halfway up the power levels. Thats like buying a dually to tow a small landscape trailer with a garden tractor? Whats the point? My challenge was to take on a truck that had a TST box and no more upgrades than $3K. I am pretty sure the race tranny and b1 was more than 3K? If not, do you have any B1 and race trannys for sale? I am not arguing just trying to make the point again that TST is a little less than honest about marketing. I am sure they are good people, they just need to put themselves in the consumers shoes for a second when thinking about their avenue of apporoach on marketing. I am sure if they are good folks they wouldn't appreciate being mislead on something they were going to purchase for their vehicle.
126 HP is the max a Banks box will put out, thats 24 HP away from the max the TST box puts out. I can use every bit of 126 HP. Most trucks cannot use the 150HP the TST puts out, certainly not a stock truck, I notice you have an improved turbo and tranny in your truck. That is not a stock truck, your signature has made my point. TST, I am sure, makes a good box for racing and if you have about $5K or more to put into turbos and a tranny, since that is the case why isn't it marketed as a race box? Banks says you need to improve breathing for the truck to use their product, that is true, and you get very manageable EGT's for daily use. TST says it can go on a stock truck which is just not true, unless you have it only halfway up the power levels. Thats like buying a dually to tow a small landscape trailer with a garden tractor? Whats the point? My challenge was to take on a truck that had a TST box and no more upgrades than $3K. I am pretty sure the race tranny and b1 was more than 3K? If not, do you have any B1 and race trannys for sale? I am not arguing just trying to make the point again that TST is a little less than honest about marketing. I am sure they are good people, they just need to put themselves in the consumers shoes for a second when thinking about their avenue of apporoach on marketing. I am sure if they are good folks they wouldn't appreciate being mislead on something they were going to purchase for their vehicle.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Drive till ya hit a Polar Bear, then go back 50 miles
Originally posted by gdh11
1) Now I have a box that can hit 126 HP on the upper setting which is only 24 HP away from the highest setting on the TST and I only hit a little over 1000 degrees and that is with my LP on.
2) So slam the Banks all you want but there are realistic alternatives out there to a box that will run your motor so hot that you will possibly trash a new and very expensive motor/turbo& tranny.
1) Now I have a box that can hit 126 HP on the upper setting which is only 24 HP away from the highest setting on the TST and I only hit a little over 1000 degrees and that is with my LP on.
2) So slam the Banks all you want but there are realistic alternatives out there to a box that will run your motor so hot that you will possibly trash a new and very expensive motor/turbo& tranny.
So, I guess what I'm really saying is: TURN THE BOX DOWN, and your reliability with the TST box is no less than any other product on the market.
2) We haven't been slamming the Banks product at all in this thread, however, IMHO, the Banks product is not the product for someone who wants to push the limits of power, nor does it have anywhere near the range of adjustability that the TST box offers. It just doesn't push the envelope. For some, maybe most, that is ideal. For us, and most of our customers, its not enough.
BTW, one of the local boys has a Banks kit on his 03 HO. I blew his doors off 3 days ago, running on 5x3 with a slipping clutch. My temps didn't move above 1100F.
Rod
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Push Rod,
I understand where you are coming from. But once agian you have helped to make my point. The boxes are trashing your truck. "I blew his doors off with a slipping clutch" Man I can't wait until I get to blow up my tranny and have to replace it with a $3500 unit from ATS, DTT, etc, with only 20K on the thing, I am barely coming into the break in period from what most have told me. That is not what I bought my truck for. There is some reponsibility that TST needs to owe up to and that is that HEAVY modifications need to be made to use their box to it fullest capacity. I am a consumer not a dealer nor am I affiliated with a dealer. They are not being honest and haven't been since the begining. Yes the TST box makes massive power, but it is not usable on a stock truck. "The power is gained by adjusting pulse duration and advancing timing with stock exhaust, turbos, and air filter. The POWERMAXCR™ will work on the 03-04.5 Cummins® Common Rail engines (even the new 325HP 600TQ engine)." That is off of their website. If you try using all of that power you will fry a really nice truck in short order, and be on the side of the road.
I don't imagine you will be blowing anyones doors of when the clutch goes, will you?
I understand where you are coming from. But once agian you have helped to make my point. The boxes are trashing your truck. "I blew his doors off with a slipping clutch" Man I can't wait until I get to blow up my tranny and have to replace it with a $3500 unit from ATS, DTT, etc, with only 20K on the thing, I am barely coming into the break in period from what most have told me. That is not what I bought my truck for. There is some reponsibility that TST needs to owe up to and that is that HEAVY modifications need to be made to use their box to it fullest capacity. I am a consumer not a dealer nor am I affiliated with a dealer. They are not being honest and haven't been since the begining. Yes the TST box makes massive power, but it is not usable on a stock truck. "The power is gained by adjusting pulse duration and advancing timing with stock exhaust, turbos, and air filter. The POWERMAXCR™ will work on the 03-04.5 Cummins® Common Rail engines (even the new 325HP 600TQ engine)." That is off of their website. If you try using all of that power you will fry a really nice truck in short order, and be on the side of the road.
I don't imagine you will be blowing anyones doors of when the clutch goes, will you?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 51
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From: Georgia
These back and forth discussions seem to be addressing the value of products when they are really about owner preferences.
All the boxes have features and benefits that fit the requirements of different drivers. The Banks system is perfect as a turnkey upgrade for those who want to make changes up to a certain point...The TST PowerMaxCR is for folks who want to go beyond that point. Neither is a right or wrong choice, its just perference.
There are a great many people on this board that can afford to buy a $50,000 truck and spend another $10,000 for upgrades. There are folks out here where I live who are spending a great deal more. It is both a work truck and a hobby and a personal statement.
Most of the folks installing the TST are doing so with a complete awareness of the upgrades needed to use all the power. As Push Rod pointed out, "usable power" means different things.
If you want to use 9/9 occasionally, on short runs to 90 MPH, you are going to need fewer modifications than if you keep it on 9/9 all the time and stay into it.
Most people know the limitations of their machinery and will keep the PowerMaxCR set on 4/4. But, I guess its like liquor. Some people can hold it down to a couple of beers - others, well....just go beyond.
All the boxes have features and benefits that fit the requirements of different drivers. The Banks system is perfect as a turnkey upgrade for those who want to make changes up to a certain point...The TST PowerMaxCR is for folks who want to go beyond that point. Neither is a right or wrong choice, its just perference.
There are a great many people on this board that can afford to buy a $50,000 truck and spend another $10,000 for upgrades. There are folks out here where I live who are spending a great deal more. It is both a work truck and a hobby and a personal statement.
Most of the folks installing the TST are doing so with a complete awareness of the upgrades needed to use all the power. As Push Rod pointed out, "usable power" means different things.
If you want to use 9/9 occasionally, on short runs to 90 MPH, you are going to need fewer modifications than if you keep it on 9/9 all the time and stay into it.
Most people know the limitations of their machinery and will keep the PowerMaxCR set on 4/4. But, I guess its like liquor. Some people can hold it down to a couple of beers - others, well....just go beyond.