yah right
I asked a rep from banks for 400 hp
he couldnt or wouldnt provide it
banks is good product but.........

im riden' the tst bus with a banks downpipe

well yah theres a temp issue,
on high power levels
show me someone else who can make that much low end power without a temp issue
its just another hurdle to cross

the codes are cured
(hurdle crossed)

 

Well I've done so good not to jump in this thing that I think I deserve a break. First of I have never seen so much complaining about to much power in my life ... TST has given everyone exactly what they wanted and then some and they have quite frankly blown everyones doors of in the power department. If you do not want all the power or you are worried about breaking parts or having go buy lift pumps or turbos to make the TST box work correctly; buy BANKS! I threw one of these boxes on a friends truck and they are a wonderfull piece of engineering.

Now as for Banks (Jack I'm doing my best) I have had an entire Banks Powerpack on my truck. Banks is not going to ever change... they have one customer in mine... 5'ers. Thats it... they are not geared toward what most people are looking for on this site and that is power. Banks does a great, and I mean great job in advertising! They are also good at providing a good product for their customers who just want more SAFE power for towing. If you want safe buy Banks. Where Banks sometimes goes wrong is when they forget what product they acctually make and start saying that they make more power than any other performance company out there. They also have a tendency to publicly say that all the other performance companies lie about their power numbers. In their new Duramax flyer it says quote:

" Consider that when you see the astronomical power and torque claims making the rounds: Banks has thouroughly tested the competitions tuners, and their numbers are not what they claim!"

Why do they say this? The Banks Duramax tuner makes less hp and tq than just about any other box or tuner on the market. Sorry it only gripes me because statments like this are very misleading and honestly I am trying to look out for you guys!. They guys that are new and don't have experience with a wide variety of Diesel performance products and are looking for the max hp and believe that Banks has it because they say they do. Banks is a great product for anyone who tows or just wants to slap something on and forget about it. But their goal is not horsepower and torque... its selling their product. This can sometimes mislead their customer, I know from personal experience because I am a customer.

Horace

 

I assume this is a dig at us, and our attempts to break the truck? Do you really believe that Banks has not tried to break anything? Do you really believe that Banks hasn't broken anything during testing? Numbers and engineering fomula will only take you so far, then its time to do real world testing.

And if you're not breaking things, you're not pushing the limits. I have yet to see a Banks powered truck coming anywhere near the big boys.

Sidewinder was an interesting project, but I have yet to see a dyno graph proving their claim of 700 HP. Besides, there are alot of "good old boys" making more than 700 ponies. They made the top speed record through good aerodynamics and sound engineering practices, no doubt, but they definitely weren't pushing the limits of the engine.

Sorry for the rant. I take offense at being called a back yard company.

Rod

 

Banks for the faint of heart? well yes, in my opinion thats precisely where their marketing thrust is aimed. Consider that their industry contribution is to:

1. publically acknowledge that elevated fuel pressures are a concern, and to publish exactly what their maximum fuel pressures are.

2. include drive-train slip detection intellegence so that if the TCC clutch slips under power, the box will DE-FUEL to protect from further slippage.

3. include intelligence that softens the Torque converter clutch engagement itself, so that the box DE-FUELS through this event, reducing the violence of the TCC lockup.

4. include EGT-based de-fueling so that the box will DE-FUEL to avoid excessively high temps. (like the TST).

Sounds like the safety/reliability crowd to me. call it faint of heart if you want and you won't get argument from me. At least for the drivetrain faint of heart. This box is certainly NOT for the install faint-of-heart OR those interested reducing the confusion of the dealer during service

In these areas this box is a connundrum to me. All that drivetrain protection stuff for joe 5th wheel puller, but then you have a box that has more connection points than any box on the market, can't be removed without significant effort, and plainly broadcasts with WIRE TAPS that an after-market modification has been installed.

 

Dont forget that those 700hp was on their chasis dyno and is flywheel hp and tq. I'm not trying to brag but my truck definantly makes more flywheel hp and tq than that.

Horace

 

 

Besides...we moved all our stuff to the front yard.

I wiLl stup hear az I cunnot post know more or eye will get band

 

Battering Ram:

You have brought up some very good points about the Banks
Products! I would agree with you that their advertising is
good; (i.e. full page detailed color photos, advertising from
the man himself (G.B.) etc.). I also agree with you that they
do target "the 5vers" as you said. My problem is that the
articles "distort the truth." Example,.......in Issue #43 of the
most recent issue of the "Turbo Diesel Register" on page #
19 Gale Banks quotes: "This is engine tuning from an engine
design company, not engine tuning from a computer hacking
company." REALLY???? I would ask "who is he referring to?"
TST, Edge Products, Blue Chip, Quadzilla, Hypertech????
I know the answer but I am not going to post it here.
This is ironic to me in that this is the same guy who
back a few years ago used to purchase all of his
Dodge Cummmins Diesel 12 valve fuel curve torque
plates (or "cam" plates) direct from Mark Chapple @
TST,.....UNTIL such time that he or the company was
able to "make their own" if you know what I mean!
AND,......this is the same guy who in July of 2003 came
out to the ATS Cummins Truck Fest @ Bandimere Speedway
in Denver, Colorado with his Banks Sidewinder (LSR) Truck.

Rumors in the pits that day were that he had an ATS
Stage V Tranny in that truck! When the Banks Pit Crew
was asked they vehemently denied that rumor saying; "It
is a Banks Automatic Transmission." Well,.....when we finally
did look under the truck the automatic transmission in the
Banks Sidewinder was painted with the familiar "ATS
Purple Color!" Later that day, Clint Cannon confirmed
to all of us that Banks had in fact, purchased a complete
ATS Transmission from them for that truck so they could
compete in the "exhibition drag race" against Scott Bentz's
Diesel Rail Dragster!! The manual transmission would have
made the Banks Sidewinder too slow for that!! As I recall
the Banks Sidewinder had a "best" E.T. of 12.3!!! Heck,...
my "low powered" 2002 Dodge CTD will run a 12.94 and
I probably outweigh the Sidewinder by at least 1,000 lbs.!!
These are things I personally do not understand, but as
many have pointed out the diesel performance business
seems to have become pretty competitive and IMO a little
"cutthroat" too!!

--------------------
local601:

No disrespect at all, but I will tell you that I am very glad that
there are vendors like Rod @ "Wildcat Diesel" working everyday
to test the new products that come out for our trucks!! IMO,...
Rod and his entire staff are far from a "backyard outfit" if that
is who you were referring to! Because I am one of the Dodge
Cummins Turbo Diesel owners who beleives in what Rod says,
namely,......"if you are not breaking things, you are not pushing
the limits!" I know not everyone is like that, but for guys like
me I like to know what I am getting in a product!!

--------
John_P

 

....you HAVE to break "stuff"....if not, how could Rod or Scotty...(or the others) be capable of suggesting the correct product for the correct application and KNOW that it will hold up?

Now...let's say they suggest something and it tears up constantly. How would you, the customer, feel about their ability to make decisions on products. People would say they have no idea what is going on.

You MUST know the limits to engineer or make accurate decisions for the customer who is trusting you. This is their livelyhood!

If they ain't breakin' stuff, they ain't learnin' enough!

Period. - JKE

 

Hi,....... Remember us?

We're the Admin/Moderators.

Either get this thread back on track and cease with the attacks, or we'll throw the locks on it.

Ed

 

And another thing....[censored] and the [censored] are not even close the George Foreman Grill.

Nuff said.

 

 

I've been put off by TST too for not answering questions sent by email. But I've been told by people who know that Mark Chappel is an honorable engineer with a huge Cummins background. I don't think I'd accuse someone like this of lying.

I also get the feeling TST would prefer selling boxes to people who have some idea what they're in for when they turn up an engine. In other words, don't buy the box without doing research ahead of time.

 

Can somebody please give this man a cigar for answering the $64,000 question?

Merrick

 

From the Banks Website:

"The Six-Gun Tuner offers the highest proven horsepower and torque"

Perhaps that advertisement was written and published before the "hacker" box was released.

Living by the sword nearly always guarantees dying by the sword. And then you have the guys who trip and fall on their own sword

By comparison, I dont think the "hacker" even owns a sword. Rather, a great disposition and a general attitude of "you get out of something what you put into it" You wont see a defense mounted by the "hacker". To him, none is needed. He wont participate in out little participatory forums. The game is fixed, irrepairable, and hopelessly corrupted because eveyones voice is equal on the forums. You cant discern right from wrong or smart from dumb in a thread in most cases.

Ranting for days and wasting hours of your life to prove a point to a "shill for the cause" is a low percentage move. Life is short.

I learned the hard way..through experience. I never changed more than handful of minds. Telling people something is one thing. Proving it or showing them is another. Arguing and name calling backed me down the ladder a notch. Or two!

Vendors should keep quieter than the users, IMO. Higher standard stuff. Throwing red meat to the hungry dogs that prowl around on the net gets you nowhere.

Transmissions, turbos, performance boxes and even oil (my favorite) seem to be the places most dogs and puppets are found. Marionettes abound! Ready to waste your time and energy.

I found it easier to just show people what you can do rather than tell them. It works better and has a lasting effect. The "oil warrior" took a different approach and helped get a truck last year into the record books. People had a hard time grasping or believing the dyno numbers so we gave them track times instead!! Hard to argue with a 12.04 @ 114 MPH time slip. Using no drugs and no weight saving methods like ripping out interiors and spare tires, etc. The truck scaled consistantly at 6900 lbs.

Take it from me.....I have been booted from more than one forum and still get called out by many puppets....its a waste of time and good hours better used toward smiling as you power past the yappers!

Don~