First Impressions of Quad's new box
03-22-2005, 07:23 PM
#63
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I'm not familiar with "soikey". Are we talking a potential of 26,100 or 26,500 or 27,000 when the ECM tries to correct?
Thanks, Quad, for all your input here.
03-22-2005, 07:30 PM
#64
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just ordered today, thanks stan. Got some buddies with other boxes thinking of dumping theirs and trying the new quad box. You cant beat in cab adjustability just like my old 02 w comp box. Quad answered my concerns about high rail pressure
03-22-2005, 09:29 PM
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Sorry for the wonderful spelling. Sometimes my brain is faster than my fingers! I edited the post and the word "soikey" that I made up was supposed to be "spikey". Hope that helps.
When you ask how much rail pressure you could see that is really an unknown questions. First it depends on how many times a second you are watching the signal. We function at over 10,000 times a sec and then we average to make our parameter change. This way you are not trying to follow a spike or anything else and you can be very smooth. This is info I am comfortable to let out as I don't think anyone will be able to match it.
The second thing to remember is that there is a safety valve on the high pressure rail. I only know of a couple of instances where the cascade valve was opened. We haev tried to open it, but we cannot seem to get the sensor to operate at a high enough voltage for a period of time long enough to cause rail pressure to get out of whack too badly. The ECM is only going to compensate up to a certain point. The factory sensor is not much good over 4.5v for the most part so it owuld be hard to assume that you could get much more than 27,500 out of the rail, even if you wanted to.
Now with that said the differences in pressure boxes can be huge. Some boxes run at higher pressures on a constant basis. Some boxes are programmed to make the max pressure you get. Others use boost to help make the power and keep the rail lower. There are a lot of ways to do it and I really can't say that any of them are wrong.
How many actual failures do you know of were caused by the rail pressure being too high? I know of one person that thinks it may have hurt an injector. He also says that from day one the pressure box he used made his truck run rough as well. I think that there have been more problems and failures associated with altering timing advance than rail pressure. Everyone is scared to death of the rail pressure, yet it seems that no one ever has pressure problems??
Now with that said, I can honestly say that I have seen 27,000 psi rail pressure on a race box for the 600. This was a quick spike and we caught it on a scope. On the 250/305hp engines the most I have seen is just under 27,000. Remember these are for microseconds and not sustained at all. I know that only when you ask for it will you even see 26,000 psi. We cruise at very low pressures and they do not climb as fast as most other products. I can't say all because I have not tested them all. I also don't want you to think that I don't worry about the rail pressure because the goal is to keep it at safe levels. I think it should be looked at and not ignored, but I don't think it is the grim reaper either.
I hope that helps and is not confusing. If I left something out pleae let me know, or let me know if I need to try and clarify something.
Quad
When you ask how much rail pressure you could see that is really an unknown questions. First it depends on how many times a second you are watching the signal. We function at over 10,000 times a sec and then we average to make our parameter change. This way you are not trying to follow a spike or anything else and you can be very smooth. This is info I am comfortable to let out as I don't think anyone will be able to match it.
The second thing to remember is that there is a safety valve on the high pressure rail. I only know of a couple of instances where the cascade valve was opened. We haev tried to open it, but we cannot seem to get the sensor to operate at a high enough voltage for a period of time long enough to cause rail pressure to get out of whack too badly. The ECM is only going to compensate up to a certain point. The factory sensor is not much good over 4.5v for the most part so it owuld be hard to assume that you could get much more than 27,500 out of the rail, even if you wanted to.
Now with that said the differences in pressure boxes can be huge. Some boxes run at higher pressures on a constant basis. Some boxes are programmed to make the max pressure you get. Others use boost to help make the power and keep the rail lower. There are a lot of ways to do it and I really can't say that any of them are wrong.
How many actual failures do you know of were caused by the rail pressure being too high? I know of one person that thinks it may have hurt an injector. He also says that from day one the pressure box he used made his truck run rough as well. I think that there have been more problems and failures associated with altering timing advance than rail pressure. Everyone is scared to death of the rail pressure, yet it seems that no one ever has pressure problems??
Now with that said, I can honestly say that I have seen 27,000 psi rail pressure on a race box for the 600. This was a quick spike and we caught it on a scope. On the 250/305hp engines the most I have seen is just under 27,000. Remember these are for microseconds and not sustained at all. I know that only when you ask for it will you even see 26,000 psi. We cruise at very low pressures and they do not climb as fast as most other products. I can't say all because I have not tested them all. I also don't want you to think that I don't worry about the rail pressure because the goal is to keep it at safe levels. I think it should be looked at and not ignored, but I don't think it is the grim reaper either.
I hope that helps and is not confusing. If I left something out pleae let me know, or let me know if I need to try and clarify something.
Quad
03-25-2005, 08:58 AM
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sheesh... ordered mine tuesday afternoon from Jon Jr. at www.cmpchips.com
it showed up thursday!
btw, he's got some of the best prices on exhaust tips I've found too.
it showed up thursday!
btw, he's got some of the best prices on exhaust tips I've found too.
03-25-2005, 10:41 AM
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Quad, excellent reply, thank you. My concern was, as the TDR article said, that on some applications, tuners made the relief valve open alot or almost continously, which it was not designed to do. It sounds like your application is only rarely, if ever, able to even get the pressure where the valve will open at all.
This is sounding more and more tempting...........
This is sounding more and more tempting...........
03-25-2005, 02:28 PM
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wexman, stop trying to rationalize this all out. Just go buy the friggen box and once you get it on all your worries will go away
If and when I do it though, this Quad box will be the one.
03-25-2005, 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by wexman
Quad, excellent reply, thank you. My concern was, as the TDR article said, that on some applications, tuners made the relief valve open alot or almost continously, which it was not designed to do. It sounds like your application is only rarely, if ever, able to even get the pressure where the valve will open at all.
This is sounding more and more tempting...........
Quad, excellent reply, thank you. My concern was, as the TDR article said, that on some applications, tuners made the relief valve open alot or almost continously, which it was not designed to do. It sounds like your application is only rarely, if ever, able to even get the pressure where the valve will open at all.
This is sounding more and more tempting...........
Now I believe what they are talking about is if the valve is getting slighlty pushed open. I don't think this can happen. We can ramp pressure and ramp pressure and then bam, the valve is wide open. So I don't think it is gradual at all. On the dyno we can see the power rise until it pops, so I have a hard time believing that it ever slowly opens.
The other thing that I noticed is that even after you reset the cascade valve it seems to stay as strong as it was before we popped it. The rumor used to be that once it is popped it will pop very easy. This could be true, but we did not find it in our testing.
Now with all that said none of our module should ever even come close to making the valve open. I guess it is possible, but none of the production code has ever opened a cascade valve that I am aware of.
These are just our findings and I am not disputing anyone elses thoughts or ideas.
Quad
03-25-2005, 03:01 PM
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Now with all that said none of our module should ever even come close to making the valve open. I guess it is possible, but none of the production code has ever opened a cascade valve that I am aware of.
Scott
03-25-2005, 11:00 PM
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good thread. now that the excitement has died down, what are the long term implications of this box?
i am still relatively new to this truck and would like to know what needs to be done to safely run this box for 150,000 miles.
i am still relatively new to this truck and would like to know what needs to be done to safely run this box for 150,000 miles.
03-27-2005, 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by hovisimo
good thread. now that the excitement has died down, what are the long term implications of this box?
i am still relatively new to this truck and would like to know what needs to be done to safely run this box for 150,000 miles.
good thread. now that the excitement has died down, what are the long term implications of this box?
i am still relatively new to this truck and would like to know what needs to be done to safely run this box for 150,000 miles.
just like my '01 drag comp, 99.99% of its life it will be off and the motor will be stock ...
the thing i LOVE about this box is how smooth the power is ...
even on the high setting the truck just seems "lighter" in the words of my wife ...
it just feels like you took about 2 tons off the truck
on two websites full of people who like to complain i haven't heard a single negative comment yet