cquestad

Would there be an issue if the turbo was sized for 400hp or so and I ran lower settings...maybe 300 or 350hp when more is not needed? If I end up with an adjustable timing/pressure box like Quad has mentioned, it leaves alot of adjustability twisting two different *****! I hope it would not make the turbo seem "laggy"...

Push Rod

Actually, with the KSB1-2, you can run stock power without inducing much in the way of lag. Its a pretty free spinning little charger. So you could easily run safely at 350 or even 380, then turn up the **** for a little more juice. You just have to be careful and watch your EGTs. High drive pressures + high EGTs = dead turbo.

The KSB1-2 will take a fair pounding though. I ran one for 8 months at 50 PSI of boost, 100 PSI+ drive pressures, and 1800F.

Rod

cquestad

Is the wastegate adjusable? I don't want to have to do anything to the top end of the motor, so it would seem like dialing the max boost to something less than 50 would be ideal. Then just keep EGT spikes below 1400 and I should be OK.

How would I estimate what the drive pressures of my setup would be?

Push Rod

The KSB1-2 is a non-wasted turbocharger. The turbine housing has a waste in it, but its disabled as the Schwitzer waste assembly won't fit on our trucks. I understand that turbomaster has a waste for it though.

As for the drive pressures, I can't even begin to guess.

Rod

fast 5.9

I just want to point something out here, when we sell a B1 turbo, it is a B1 from Ken at TAD. that doesn't mean to say we don't have our own modified line of turbo's or that we are not working on new stuff. But if it's sold by us and advertised as a B series turbo, you can bet it will be a genuine TAD turbo. I hate the copy cats that are already out there & I'll be dammed if I'll join their ranks.

Piers

www.piersdiesel.com

AK RAM

The ATS S200 based and the BD S300 both have a dual volute wastegate that is suppose to totally eliminate bark. They both tout their turbos (except for the Aurora 3000) as being impossible to bark. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of wastegate. Curious if it is as effective against stall as they claim?

Gypsyman

Piers told me via e-mail that the KSB-1-2-03 is a direct bolt in with no new down pipe needed. BD's version of the "S3000" has a , modified by them, exhaust housing with a 4" outlet. They state that the standard S2000 and S3000 have a 3.5" exhaust outlet and aren't enough for the third gen's towing.

As a note, I'm assuming they mean S200 & S300...

-Richard

now, if I could just figure out if I can use my Jacobs vacuum controls on thier 4" inline brake I'd be on my way...

GreenZ

This turbo talk is all so confusing to an old man

This is what I understand, tell me where I am wrong; If I use a turbo that is good for towing, it will spool up fast, but I will not be able to use the full potential of my performance box (or boxes) because my EGT's will be out of control. If I use a turbo that is large enough to control EGT's, then I can not tow effectively because of the lag.

Question: Would a twin set-up solve both problems? In other words, would I have quick spool and have controllable EGT's? Would twins give me a great daily driver, a good tow rig, and the occasional hot rodding? (come on, say yes, I know you want to )

AK RAM

Essentially, yeah, but you can find good compromises. You need to determine at what horsepower level you will be at first. If you are going to tow a lot, I can't imagine being at 500hp or more. You will loose a lot of drivability while towing at that level. If you can determine that you will be towing at 400hp to 450hp, there are decent singles that will perform well at that level. 500hp and up, your looking at twins if you are even considering towing. Just call some of the more respected diesel performance places talked about on the forum here and they can get you started with making the right decision.

Yes. There...you happy?

Twins is the only tested true way to have both at this point, super fast spool and wicked top end flow, but at a cost of $4,000 and up. There are a lot of interesting turbos that just hit the market and a few more, to include BB turbos, that are not far away. The problem with these new turbos is that they are untested by the masses. Most will hesitate to veer away from their favorite time tested turbos. Because of that, it will be a long time before the newer offerings are being used in great enough numbers to have a good feel for what they are capable of. That's a shame. Some of these new turbos may do a decent job, we just don't know yet. I suspect the BB turbos, when we finally see them (September), will be very close to performing like you want. You can make a fairly large puffer spinning on BBs and it will spool much much faster than a large puffer spinning on a traditional cartridge/bushing design.

If you are considering twins and money is not a problem for you, give Piers Diesel a call. They have a great set of towing twins that will handle just about anything you can throw at it using current fueling technology and will spool like crazy.

GreenZ

The following questions are serious (not rhetorical).

Why is 500+hp not good for towing if you have the appropriate twin set up? Is it too hard on the engine components - dragging around alot of weight? How do you lose drivability if you have a well balanced turbo configuration?

AK RAM

There are a lot of drawbacks to pulling with that much power. Depends on which ones bother you. Keeping the rear tires planted is hard enough pulling with that much power. Forget it in the rain. Having to constantly baby it in the rain will get very old very quick. Might as well stay home. You constantly have to be more aware of what you are doing. You can't just go for a ride and enjoy the scenery. It is hard to accelerate at the average rate of traffic, so your constantly speeding up....slowing down. Just irritating. That bugs me the most. Constantly having to spool those twins up, then bring them down....lots of turbo noise. Just the sound of a single will drive you batty running a torque tube with the silencer ring removed. Twins don't come with silencer rings or sound baffles. You have to listen to them whine all day long. You are constantly flexing and bucking the entire truck trying to pull at that level (even with an auto) with that much torque due to traffic being in your way, making for a not so smooth ride. These are all drivability issues that will affect you and your family's comfort level. A lot of people think, "That's what I want, to be able to blow by all that traffic when pulling my trailer". It does not make for a smooth, comfortable, quiet drive that you can enjoy with the family while on vacation. Again, some people don't mind. I do. It will get on your nerves quick. 450HP will pull the max load capacity of your truck as fast as you need to be pulling it. That and the fact that at over 500+, you have almost doubled the HP and TQ output of the truck. Things won't last long stressing the engine and drive train components that much if you pull heavy at that level a lot. Wasn't designed to be able to do it....and won't for very long. Of course, driving habits play a part as well. If you baby it, you may not mind trying to pull with that much power. But that defeats the purpose of having it. Best to keep the power adjustable so you can dial back to a respectable level when you want, but you still got loud a$$ twins going off that just won't shut up on long drives.

Perfect towing power level: 400HP, if you can get a constant 400 between 1200 and 2000 RPMs. Currently, only the TST can do that.

Maybe some more folks that pull/have pulled with that much power will chime in with their experiences. There are people who pull at that level every day, and some even like it.

banshee

Towing with 500 hp (or even more) should not be a problem, but as AK said, there will be some compromises. Generally, smoke, noise, and less drivability seem to be the key areas that are "bad" with high HP trucks... not to mention the reliabilty factor (or lack thereof). Disregarding those things, however, you can definitely pull heavy loads with high hp. For example, my dad made a trip up and back from Indiana (to NC) with a ~11k pound load with his twin turboed 12V (well over 500hp), and it had lower EGTs loaded at 75mph on flat ground (800) than his single turboed 24V (dynoed at 486hp) does bobtail (825). EGTs and power were never a problem, and he was pulling that weight up some of the steepest hills on the east coast. The truck would smoke, but it wasn't that heavy. The new CR motors should be somewhat cleaner at the 500 hp level, so with twins towing is definitely possible. The 500 hp line seems to be about the line that separates "comfortable HP" from "raw HP". The higher you go above that line the worse the drivability becomes due to the need for larger, slower, smokier turbo setups to keep the temps down.

fast 5.9

I have to chime in here on that note. My old 94 Dodge was 520hp in valet mode, 700 in full power. Never pulled in full power, but in valet mode I found the following while towing.
Power or lack of it was never an issue, egt's never a problem, but on a long pull I had to keep the pyro at 1100 max, or the water temps got too high....I guess the rad was never designed to dissipate the heat of 500hp. You do have to be carefull with your drivetrain, but you would have to watch it a bit with 400-450 rwhp as well, I just stay away from low rpm's when tugging hard. Our unit comes in at 18K, truck and trailer combined & we can hold 75 mph on a 6% grade at 84 degrees outside temps.
I'm not quite sure about your comment regarding speeding up and slowing down with traffic, you can drive with/slower or faster than the traffic, no particular issues there. i can't use the cruise control going downhill, but on level ground or pulling a hill it worked fine. as for pulling in the rain, well in B.C. it only rains twice a year.....once for 5 months & once for 4 months LOL
I didn't have any major issues, other than the look on peoples faces as you pass them with a 5th wheel in tow and the truck partialy sideways underneath it...but the whole unit is straight as you go by.
Piers

GreenZ

Guys, thanks for all the info. Y'all brought up issues that had not occured to me. Unforunately for me, twins may not be the "best solution to all my driving problems" (not ruling them out yet). Some of AK RAM's comments about "comfort" while on road trips definitely apply to me (we do a fair amount of RVing). I hope someone makes a turbo that will allow us to use a couple of boxes while keeping EGT's managabe and still be very drivable.

Gypsyman

Piers,
Can you tell me about the KSB-1-2-03? Wastegate type, HP rating, max boost, will it work in a 6 speed towing application, does it have a 3.5" exhaust outlet and how much will that limit a mild truck? You know, sell me on it!