Hi have a friends whos 04 has been in the shop for 5 weeks its a 305 anyway it will not start unless you give it a shot of either dealer cant find whats wrong said it was injecters but he pulled injecters and they tested fine they wont warntey it because he had a ez edge on it any idias to what it might be thanks

 

new to diesels myself not to engine work.

three things are still basic to the formula. fuel, fire and air. with out those three its not gonna start.

is the ceramic plate getting hot enough to ignite the diesel. you said it would start with a shot of ether. the ether probably has a cooler flash point than the diesel. it explodes and then ignites the diesel.
if it runs fine after the ether starts the thng i would start there. perhaps the battery doesn't have enough juice the preheat the plate.

i am a newby to being spark plug free so if i am barking up the wrong tree feel free to school me

 

Uh, did you say ether? That's a big on trucks with grid heaters like ours. In fact I think it clearly states not to use ether somewhere in the owners manual and is quite possibly labeled on the truck too.

I'm not sure about the HPCR engines, but the grid heater on the 24VISB's doesn't activate unless the IAT is below 59*F. Mine hasn't come on at all since early May. Even if it was 5*F and the grid heater wasn't operating the truck would still start as long as it was getting fuel. White smoke like crazy for 15 minutes, but it would start.

Anyway, your buddy should have taken the EZ off before going in to the dealer. They have been known to have injector problems, but when they do they still run. While it was in to get its warranty denial did they advise him of any diagnostic codes? That would be the first place to start and if there are none then pull the inlet to the CP3 injection pump and ensure that it is getting fuel. If it has fuel from there I can't help much as the 3rd Gens have quite a bit different electronics than my old 2nd Gen.

 

Rockhound is both right and wrong...

Diesels don't need "fire". They make it. Compress air above the flashpoint of fuel, then inject oil into the superheated air, and you get a bang.

As to ether... DON'T! Draw an ether mixture across active heating grids and you'll be in for a very BAD day. At the very least you can expect a new hairstyle and the lack of eyebrows. At the worst an engine fire and damaged components.

So it's back to the question of what a diesel needs to start:

1. Air
2. Compression
3. Fuel

And that's about it!

Since air doesn't seem to be the problem, and since an ether/air mix will fire the old girl... She's not getting fuel! The dealer isn't too smart if he's just tested injectors, but not the pump.

Several things come to mind:

1. Plugged fuel filter. (You need to change it just to be sure it's not the problem.

2. Pinhole in the fuel line that allows air into the system. Your injector and your lift pump may not be able to overcome the problem until the engine starts.

3. Bad lift pump. I'll repeat... BAD LIFT PUMP!

4. Failed injector pump. (Usually caused by BAD LIFT PUMP).

Since you posted on 3rd Generation, you have a common rail system. I rather doubt that it has been damaged by lack of fuel, but I'd put money on a lift pump or air leak.

Just remember... Diesels are less complicated than gassers. They don't require much other than the availability of air and fuel. You can prove she's getting air, so it leaves only one other path.

Did I mention a LIFT PUMP???

 

There is a good chance that the dealer has now done damage to the engines inner componenets using ether. These engines are not like the older engines or a peace of heavy equipment. Ether is not even a choice for starting them.
First off is that I can only guess what year the truck is, but will assume that it's a 3rd gen. First thing to go on these trucks is usually the lift pump which will in turn damage the injection pump and cause failure. Hopefully they checked the lift pump. If not, then make them test the darned thing. Then test the fuel pressure on the rails, which they can do by using the computer diagnostic tools they plug into the port. Make sure they check for available codes. I'm saying all this because it seems that they've thrown the book right out the window when they say that your friend had the Edge on his truck and will try to blame any damage done to the truck and or engine on the box.

 

It ain't getting fuel.

Check to make sure there is fuel in the tank. If in doubt add more.

Replace the fuel filter. Doubt this is the problem but it can't hurt.

Disconnect the Edge and return the truck to stock.

When you "bump" the starter do you hear the lift pump run for about another 20 seconds?

Turn the ignition switch on/off/on/off/on and read the codes in the odometer window.

Ether is mainly a no-no because of the grid heaters. I wouldn't worry about it otherwise.

 

These Cummins ISB motors are so close tolerance, if you have been using ether to start the engine, probably you (or they) have washed the upper cylinder walls dry and resulted in galling the cylinders and compression rings, which will prevent it from getting sufficient pressure to autoignite the diesel fuel. If this has happened (Cummins expressly states NOT to use ether or starting fluids) then most likely it is ready for a ring job before it will start right, even if the underlying problem (possibly lift pump pressure) gets resolved. If your dealer is a qualified diesel shop, they should be able to compression check it to make sure they have not damaged the cylinders and rings. It does take a specialized compression tester - one for a gasser just won't do.

If the lift pump is not the culprit, commonly on an older diesel, it is as simple as batteries not cranking it fast enough to make the heat it needs to ignite fuel. I saw more than one good old diesel truck ruined with starting fluid as batteries died on the old Mitsubishi 243 powered Rams in the 1970's and have seen it happen on a few tractors and other diesel engines since.

Batteries may die in as little as 1 1/2 to 2 years, longer than that and you are lucky!

At times, I think our CTD's are the only part of these trucks that aren't supplied by the cheapest bidder!

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

my truck is in the shop for a similar prob. It went in two weeks ago and they said the prob was a blocked fuel pressure limit valve, so they replaced it. Problem seemed to go away but about a week later the truck would crank really really long then start, sometimes taking a few minutes of cranking before starting ( not cranking more than 10 sec at a time as to not dammage the starter). I told the dealer both times about the lift pump but they seem to think that there is a bad injector/s. Only real difference is my truck always eventually starts after trying it over and over again, and sometimes it will start up fine. Thats what make me think that the LP is starting to die. Im about really to buy nice FP gauge to fine out for my self whats goin on.

 

Purchased 2005 3500 4 wheel drive June 05. Originally the truck would surge when the fuel guage needle arrived at the half tank mark. Dealer stated the air filter was bad. The truck continued the problem which evolved into a ticking sound. Dealer replaced six injectors, stated the injectors were a bad set. Truck managed to run one more time 8-12-05 lots of ticking been at the dealer ever since. Dealer replaced six more injectors and connector tubes. Truck still would not run or start. Dodge rep contacted me last week said my warranty is voided due to contaminated fuel, advised me to contact my insurance to pay for all the work done to the truck. I have owned five dodge diesels, I started driving them in 1990. I still own my 1993. I have no idea whats wrong with my truck and obviously niether does dodge. Has anyone else had these problems?

 

To the dealer...

Contaminated fuel is a fact of life. That's why there's a filter on these beasts. If bad fuel passed the filter, then it would seem that was on the dealers watch. That's his problem, not yours.

By the way... Bad lift pump. Who knows what else now that the dealer has been fooling with the truck.

 

I sure hope you dont just accept that. I am asuming that you had the surging problem on your first tank. If that is the case and your dealer is like most it came with a full tank of fuel and was contaminated before you ever set foot in it. I would be steaming hot to say the least. And if the problem started after a few tanks where run threw it then I would also agree that thats what the filter is for. I would definatly ask them what was in the fuel that they considered a contamination worth voiding your warrenty. Last i would contact the gas station you got the suposadly bad fuel at and see if they are willing to help you out. A lot of the times they will. I would also be contacting a lawyer for sure. I dont like them but you just got a REAL BIG SHAFT in a very unpleasent orphise.

 

Pulled the injectors and tested them? With what? Dealer either didn't test them and really tested something else (although I don't know what) or he's feeding you bull. He probably did a lift pump test.

He can look at rail pressure. Is the rail pressurizing? If so, its not the rail pop off valve. If not, its the cp3 pump or a stuck open pop off valve (not likely) or a stuck open inector bleeding off the rail pressure.