Ultra low sulfur info direct from Cummins
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From: Mostly near Tampa Fl
Ultra low sulfur info direct from Cummins
I found this on another site, a RV site but thought it might be interesting. I can't give credit to whoever posted it but it is interesting reading:
Here is the info straight from Cummmins. Hope it helps.
Summary: Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel
Solution:
Thanks for your Email message.
There are many rumors circulating about the effects of sulfur being in diesel fuel or sulfur being taken out of diesel fuel. Diesel fuel without sulfur is just as good, in all respects except one, when compared with today's fuels with sulfur.
Diesel fuel, in the United States, must meet a lubricity standard. The producers adjust the lubricity before they distribute the fuel. No further additives are needed to ensure proper fuel system lubrication.
The only negative effect of taking sulfur out of fuel is that the fuel becomes more expensive, somewhat negating the inherent cost advantage of running diesel engines when compared to other fuels. As we are certain you know, sulfur doesn't jump out of the fuel on command. It has to be removed using specialized equipment and chemical processes that add to the expense of producing the fuel.
Basically the change to new fuel should be pretty easy for folks with the engines built prior to 2007 and for customers with the engines built in 2007 it will be necessary, for the short time it takes fuel stations to consume the remainder of the old fuel (maybe a month or two), to be certain they are not fueling with the older fuel.
There is an effect on diesel engines from the use of low or no sulfur fuel which we expect to be positive. The blowby gasses that normally pass through the engine crankcase will contain less or none of the chemically reactive sulfur and its compounds. This will tend to keep the engine oil cleaner during operation and allow important engine components like bushings, bearings and piston rings to live longer.
Diesel fuels containing sulfur or no sulfur each have the same specific heat, about 20,000 BTUs per pound. For that reason they give the same amounts of work for the same amount of fuel. That means the fuel economy per gallon will not be affected.
Over the years we have seen fuel economy decrease, somewhat, as diesel engine designs have been modified to meet the lower NOX limits imposed by government. This has been totally unrelated to sulfur in the fuel.
With lower sulfur fuels it is possible that some exhaust after treatment devices (catalytic converters) may be used to better effect, making it possible to further decrease harmful exhaust emissions.
If you use diesel fuel that does not meet the new federal low sulfur requirements that are going into effect for 2007, in a 2007 vehicle that requires the new fuel, it will produce particulate matter that will cause rapid plugging of the exhaust particulate trap. We don't anticipate producing engines for such vehicles until 2007.
We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins Service Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:
http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocato...n=showworldmap
Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357). Customers may also call Cummins switchboard 1-812-377-5000 (worldwide toll call) and ask for the 800-DIESELS Call Center for assistance.
Cummins Email (via webpage):
http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.j...33&menuIndex=7
Customer Assistance Center
Cummins, Inc.
Columbus, Indiana, USA
================================================== =======================
Here is the info straight from Cummmins. Hope it helps.
Summary: Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel
Solution:
Thanks for your Email message.
There are many rumors circulating about the effects of sulfur being in diesel fuel or sulfur being taken out of diesel fuel. Diesel fuel without sulfur is just as good, in all respects except one, when compared with today's fuels with sulfur.
Diesel fuel, in the United States, must meet a lubricity standard. The producers adjust the lubricity before they distribute the fuel. No further additives are needed to ensure proper fuel system lubrication.
The only negative effect of taking sulfur out of fuel is that the fuel becomes more expensive, somewhat negating the inherent cost advantage of running diesel engines when compared to other fuels. As we are certain you know, sulfur doesn't jump out of the fuel on command. It has to be removed using specialized equipment and chemical processes that add to the expense of producing the fuel.
Basically the change to new fuel should be pretty easy for folks with the engines built prior to 2007 and for customers with the engines built in 2007 it will be necessary, for the short time it takes fuel stations to consume the remainder of the old fuel (maybe a month or two), to be certain they are not fueling with the older fuel.
There is an effect on diesel engines from the use of low or no sulfur fuel which we expect to be positive. The blowby gasses that normally pass through the engine crankcase will contain less or none of the chemically reactive sulfur and its compounds. This will tend to keep the engine oil cleaner during operation and allow important engine components like bushings, bearings and piston rings to live longer.
Diesel fuels containing sulfur or no sulfur each have the same specific heat, about 20,000 BTUs per pound. For that reason they give the same amounts of work for the same amount of fuel. That means the fuel economy per gallon will not be affected.
Over the years we have seen fuel economy decrease, somewhat, as diesel engine designs have been modified to meet the lower NOX limits imposed by government. This has been totally unrelated to sulfur in the fuel.
With lower sulfur fuels it is possible that some exhaust after treatment devices (catalytic converters) may be used to better effect, making it possible to further decrease harmful exhaust emissions.
If you use diesel fuel that does not meet the new federal low sulfur requirements that are going into effect for 2007, in a 2007 vehicle that requires the new fuel, it will produce particulate matter that will cause rapid plugging of the exhaust particulate trap. We don't anticipate producing engines for such vehicles until 2007.
We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins Service Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:
http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocato...n=showworldmap
Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357). Customers may also call Cummins switchboard 1-812-377-5000 (worldwide toll call) and ask for the 800-DIESELS Call Center for assistance.
Cummins Email (via webpage):
http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.j...33&menuIndex=7
Customer Assistance Center
Cummins, Inc.
Columbus, Indiana, USA
================================================== =======================
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 328
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From: Oxnard, CA
One of the local stations has ULSD-B5 diesel.
The price is the same as the regular stuff across the street at the Shell station, so I've been running it now for two tanks to see what its all about.
The MPG is 2-3 mpg less, doesn't smoke as much, and doesn't smell as much as the 'ol stuff.
Same driving routes, same lead foot.......just less MPG.
So not only is the price going to be higher, we'll be burning it fast too
The price is the same as the regular stuff across the street at the Shell station, so I've been running it now for two tanks to see what its all about.
The MPG is 2-3 mpg less, doesn't smoke as much, and doesn't smell as much as the 'ol stuff.
Same driving routes, same lead foot.......just less MPG.
So not only is the price going to be higher, we'll be burning it fast too
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Texas, Hill Country
From Chevron's website:
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ulsd.shtml#A13
How will diesel fuel properties, other than sulfur, change with S15 (ULSD)?
There are several diesel fuel properties other than sulfur that will change as a result of moving to S15 (ULSD).
Lubricity:
Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear.The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.
The D975 specification is based on the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR) test (D 6079) and requires a wear scar no larger than 520 microns.
Energy Content:
In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also reduces the aromatics content and density of diesel fuel, resulting in a reduction in energy content (BTU/gal).
The expected reduction in energy content is on the order of 1% and may affect fuel mileage.
Cetane Number:
In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15ppm also reduces the aromatics content resulting in an increase to the cetane number.
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ulsd.shtml#A13
How will diesel fuel properties, other than sulfur, change with S15 (ULSD)?
There are several diesel fuel properties other than sulfur that will change as a result of moving to S15 (ULSD).
Lubricity:
Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear.The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.
The D975 specification is based on the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR) test (D 6079) and requires a wear scar no larger than 520 microns.
Energy Content:
In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also reduces the aromatics content and density of diesel fuel, resulting in a reduction in energy content (BTU/gal).
The expected reduction in energy content is on the order of 1% and may affect fuel mileage.
Cetane Number:
In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15ppm also reduces the aromatics content resulting in an increase to the cetane number.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 822
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From: Central MA
Interesting. Thanks, to you and Don for the links. I was wondering what would/could happen to an 07 using the 500 ppm.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 210
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From: folsom,ca
This low sulfur stuff just does not make since to me. The purpose is to lower emmisions right? From what I have been reading (on the net and in mags.) Fuel economy will be affected in a negative way. So if you drive 10,000 miles and average 19mpg it will take about 555 gallons.Now subtract 2.5mpg from your previous 19mpg and you get 16.5mpg and if you drive 10,000 miles and average 16.5mpg you will need to burn about 606 gallons of fuel. Thats 51 extra gallons of fuel in the atmosphere! So the oil industry will have to process an extra 50 gallons, trucks delivering fuel to fuel stations will have to make more trips to keep the pumps full and the fuel companys have to go through the process of taking out sulfur. All of those things listed will have to pollute more in order to compliment the new fuel. The Goverment does not care about pollution, they just want to steal your money and make more laws!!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Got that right!!!!
When congress and your state legislatures are in session, your personal fredoms, and the money you earn are at risk!!!
Just a conspirasy theory thought here. I'd be willing to bet that once our "wonderful" government finds a way to mandate/get (by whatever way possible) the BTU's in diesel fuel down to roughly the same level as gasoline, then you will start seeing diesel and gasoline maitaining the same price!!!!!
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Got that right!!!! When congress and your state legislatures are in session, your personal fredoms, and the money you earn are at risk!!!
Just a conspirasy theory thought here. I'd be willing to bet that once our "wonderful" government finds a way to mandate/get (by whatever way possible) the BTU's in diesel fuel down to roughly the same level as gasoline, then you will start seeing diesel and gasoline maitaining the same price!!!!!
When congress and your state legislatures are in session, your personal fredoms, and the money you earn are at risk!!! Just a conspirasy theory thought here. I'd be willing to bet that once our "wonderful" government finds a way to mandate/get (by whatever way possible) the BTU's in diesel fuel down to roughly the same level as gasoline, then you will start seeing diesel and gasoline maitaining the same price!!!!!
If that was the case, diesel is more than $.35 more a gallon than gas where I live...and in some local areas $.50 more.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 15
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From: Lost Angeles
"There is an effect on diesel engines from the use of low or no sulfur fuel which we expect to be positive. The blowby gasses that normally pass through the engine crankcase will contain less or none of the chemically reactive sulfur and its compounds. This will tend to keep the engine oil cleaner during operation and allow important engine components like bushings, bearings and piston rings to live longer."
This actually makes sense to me. Back when I was a kid and we played with sulfer from my chemistry set, I remember the hard crusty black stuff that burning sulfer left behind. Really nasty stuff and I'd bet there is still some of this black residue left on that concrete patio to this day.
I was wondering if the fuel would burn much cleaner and can't think of any reason why it wouldn't help with engine longevity assuming there is proper lubrication in the fuel.
This actually makes sense to me. Back when I was a kid and we played with sulfer from my chemistry set, I remember the hard crusty black stuff that burning sulfer left behind. Really nasty stuff and I'd bet there is still some of this black residue left on that concrete patio to this day.
I was wondering if the fuel would burn much cleaner and can't think of any reason why it wouldn't help with engine longevity assuming there is proper lubrication in the fuel.