I doubt that they change from the NV5600. They can hold the 600 lbs of torque fine. Just look at all the guys running an EDGE EZ and RV275's on the old ETH engines with the 6-speed.

They hold the power fine. I bet they just put a new torque rating on the transmission.

-CM

 

Its one thing for a small number of guys to become their own warranty station, use a fueling box and ask the tranny to tolerate higher torque numbers, -- as a way of benefiting from the tranny's design margin. its quite another for the mfg to arbitrarily spec a component for heavy duty use, throughout the entire fleet, with a 10% higher figure -- with out a rigorous qualification process and/or adjustment of the warranty dollars built into the unit.

for DC to mate the 5600 with the Cummins 600, they would have to buy up the trannys and sign a disclaimer with Muncie, such that they (DC) would take all the liability. Its true that they do this with the Cummins engine today, but they are not knowingly exceeding any design limit. I don't think DC will do this, and I don't see any evididence that the 5600 is being re-spec'd, either through marketing or via engineering.

I know what your'e saying about the durability of the NV5600. its a workhorse and a solid component. I just don't see DC deliberately exceeding the design limits of a part they have not qualified to operate with 600 ft lbs of torque input. I know from talking with Muncie trannmission, the NV5600 will not be receiving a higher input torque spec. thats as far as the tranny mfg is concerned.

I realize that this is all speculation, but I would look for the new trucks to either have a different manual transmission or not be available in that configuration. If you are right about using the 5600 with the new 600, I bet its only a stop gap measure until they officially qualify a tranny that meets the torque requirement.

consider that today they are already exceeding the torque specification by 5 ft lbs. the 2003 HO is 555 ft lbs and the tranny is only 550.

but, alas, none of us really knows, but its fun to talk about it

 

Very true, we all have our own ideas. I'm sure DC will figure out the most "cost effective" way to deal with the new power ratings.

I would love to see a new manual to make all the handshakers happy.

I always wondered why Dodge did not build/buy a tranny that would put the RPM right around max torque of the CTD during cruising speeds, 60-70mph @1600RPM. An extra forward gear would be great. Seems to me that would increase fuel mileage and smiles for those who haul.

-CM

 

pretty hard to pinpoint the max torque which is naturally acheived via the mechanical behavior of the engine. The actual torque curve is flat from 1400 to 2700, which is acheived via fueling algorithms and wastegated turbo.

The advantage of gearing highway speeds for 2000 instead of 1600 is torque multplication and higher HP -- you'll get 20% better oomph. I like my 3.73s and 285 tires -- they give me 1900 rpm at 65.

 

[quote author=Doug link=board=20;threadid=23101;start=45#msg220408 date=1070929764]
I like my 3.73s and 285 tires -- they give me 1900 rpm at 65.
[/quote]


Bingo! I'm right there with you, it's just perfect.

 

While at South Plains Cummins today I asked the service manager about the new engine. I didn't go into detail, but he did offer a few interesting points.
* it does have egr
* it has computer controlled injectors (something new?)
* it will be a totally Dodge serviced engine. He said they did not have the equipment to run diags and would not be getting it.
I guess Dodge is trying to tie up loose ends on getting repairs done elswhere. If you think they're high priced now....just wait!

For what it's worth.............

CR

 

Well, the current engine is a totally Dodge serviced engine and they (Cummins) doesn't have the equipment to run diags. That was part of the contract terms, at the HPCR intro, so that DC could protect their service business. Seems that priviously, guys were going to Cummins instead of Dodge for service work.

the injectors were already computer controlled, since the 2003 intro of HPCR. Thats how they acheive pilot injection (i.e. more than one fuel charge per intake cycle) and gives them ultimate control over the combustion event, positioning the platform for future compatibility with emissions.

LOL he thinks it has EGR. well, time will only tell I guess!

 

if the auto tranny is the weak link in the drive-train how is it going to withstand the new torque values? my money is on the same NV5600 getting the nod to be ok with this new engine set up. new venture/muncie is not going to give up that business over 45 ft lbs. plus, if the new engine is ready for shipping in mid January how could DC already have sourced a replacement trans as well? and if they did have a new 6 spd in mind how would no one have spilled the beans on its origin?

 

Well, my personal take here is that the 48RE, in service for about a year now, was designed with the Cummins 600 in mind. I'd think they've planed this out pretty well and are expecting to use the 48RE. They put a lot of R & D into it, which I think would not have been a good ROI decision if the plan all along was to re-source a new auto for the 2004.5s

I also think they've planned out the manual transmission thing too. whatever solution they've planned on, they've got all their ducks in a row in my opinion: Maybe its NV5600 for now, until 2005. I hate to say it this way but I will say that a reliable (but not authoritative) source has informed me that Muncie's days are numbered, as regards the manual transmission for the RAM cummins. The rumor's I'm hearing is 2005. How long do you think DC will depend on the competition to help them win the truck wars?

Muncie may not want to give up that business, but DC and/or GM might have corporate objectives...

As for spilling the beans on a new transmission, consider that the beans are still not spilled on the new Cummins engine, yet we've known about it for 6 months or so and its the hottest topic in the diesel truck scene today. We dont' know for sure if it has egr or not, post combustion treatment, etc. So I 'd think all the vendor qualification work to source a new manual transmission is already in progress, and that they can keep a secret.

Hearing that 2004.5s will use the NV5600, I'd put my guess on a HP/Torque change in the engine for the 2005 model year, and a new manual transmission. After all, a Mercades transmission might be available...

 

My sad point is that I just took delivery of my ctd on 11/10 & now they change the unit mid year :P. Sad that they would not wait till 2005. I hope the changes can be installed into our early 2004 trucks without too much cost or voiding the warrenty, or I then will just introduce the box, exhaust & become my own warrenty station sooner than I wanted . I will be following this topic close & personal ;D

 

I thought the '04.5 changes were driven by a need to meet some new federal emissions standard? Or maybe they just didn't like the SO being the only one in CA?

I also know of something in the pipe, but don't know much about it. Not sure which model year will have a newer motor. Cummins and DC might not have their model year stuff in sync. My guess is an '05 release as an '06 model year. Having it ready for '05 is cutting it awful close. Don't know much about it, new truck, new motor, more power... Might just be some cost reduction or emission changes.

 

[quote author=LRAmberson link=board=20;threadid=23101;start=45#msg221044 date=1071017329]
My sad point is that I just took delivery of my ctd on 11/10 & now they change the unit mid year :P. Sad that they would not wait till 2005. I hope the changes can be installed into our early 2004 trucks without too much cost or voiding the warrenty, or I then will just introduce the box, exhaust & become my own warrenty station sooner than I wanted . I will be following this topic close & personal ;D
[/quote]

One thing that everyone is forgetting, this new 50 State EPA engine will probably have Federal Regulations that the consumer will have to adhear to. In others words, your exhaust system and fueling probably can not be legally modified, and may be subject to Federal fines if they are modified.

I know the last time I went to a muffler shop to have a new exhaust put on a van, I wanted to put duals on it. Nobody would do it claiming that Federal Regulations required them to only build it to stock specifications.

For the above reasons, I wanted, ordered and will receive (hopefully next week) a pre-04.5 without the EPA approval! ;D ;D

I think that anyone that took delivery before the "New 600" engine should be happy! If you want more power, just add a box or injectors and not worry about the Feds!

With an EZ box, you can always pull it before you take it to the dealer for servicing.

 

I feel better now that your reply posted ;D ;D, I feel that you might be right on target with the federal emission standard. I hope that we fly under the radar with the 04 ctd. I am ordering the Jegs system soon(Santa wife). My dealer advises this will not void my warrenty, also the air cleaner is in his graces also. I am putting more pressure on him today when I order my wheel well liners. Thanks for the posting of encouragement Ghost....

 

In my state you may not modify(remove) catalitic converters but we don't have this as of now you can change anything as long as you don't become to loud (not sure of the exact level) 110bd In Louisiana. I sure hope they don't listen to my Motorcycle.