calvin

I'm thinking of replacing the stock air filter on my 2003 CTD with a K&N. Is anyone running a K&N in their CTD? If so, is it worth it??

Ramflasher

Although I am sorry to say, Diesel Phil may be correct. The dealer seems to want to void a warranty at any cost.<br><br>You can fall back on the federal law, Moss Magnuson act, however, by the time you are done with litigation, you are still the big loser.<br><br>If it was me, I would run the K&amp;N, and keep your old filter for those pesky trips to the dealer. Just replace it with the original filter before going in.<br><br>One last note. Make sure you have a good seal when you change filters. I do not believe the K&amp;N is a problem. The seal you get with any filter is the problem.

atoughram

And remember this - &quot;I am my own warranty station...&quot;<br><br>Less than 20K miles before I dont have to worry about it anymore!!!

cp

[quote author=calvin link=board=17;threadid=12237;start=0#115676 date=1047605132]<br>I'm thinking of replacing the stock air filter on my 2003 CTD with a K&amp;N. Is anyone running a K&amp;N in their CTD? If so, is it worth it??<br>[/quote]<br><br>Don't do it.<br><br>The gain in air flow (which a stock diesel doesn't need) is more than offset by the reduction in filtration. You won't gain any power by using one.<br><br>The reusability factor of the K&amp;N comes down to 'if you can afford a $35K truck, you can afford paper air filters for it.'<br><br>K&amp;N air filters are great for making power on gas engines--the intake of air is the limiting factor. They don't do squat for diesels unless you are a dyno junkie.<br><br><br><br>

Kimrey

CP, don't you have it backwards? A diesel needs all the air it can get. Lower egt's. If i cut my boost down to 20, my egt's can run out of site while towing. At 30# my egt's stay within limits. Less air higher temps. Think of the turbo spining and sucking air. The more the better.<br><br>Kimrey

BusinessLink

Besides the filtration issues with the K&amp;N, I have seen problems in my dealership with turbos malfunctioning because of oil coated filters. The act which you are referring to does not apply if an aftermarket part directly causes a part to fail. My advice, wait till Western Diesel comes out with an intake/filter for the 3rd gens and go with that. Stay away from any oil soaked filter. Neither Cummins or MOPAR reccomends K&amp;N.

cp

[quote author=Kimrey link=board=17;threadid=12237;start=0#117706 date=1048026999]<br>CP, don't you have it backwards? A diesel needs all the air it can get. Lower egt's. If i cut my boost down to 20, my egt's can run out of site while towing. At 30# my egt's stay within limits. Less air higher temps. Think of the turbo spining and sucking air. The more the better.<br><br>Kimrey<br>[/quote]<br><br>Don't think so. The Cummins gets all the air it needs with the factory filter, going from a high air/fuel ratio of about 85:1 idling to something like 35:1 at full power. Any internal combustion engine can burn all the fuel in a cylinder at an a/f ratio of about 20:1, so wouldn't you say the diesel already has an abundance of air?<br><br>How did you 'cut the boost' down to 20psi? If you simply reduce the rpm, you're lugging the engine and yes, EGT's will rise. If your engine can pull 30psi of boost, you've already proven that the filter can flow that much air. Running it at 20psi and getting high EGT's will not be changed by replacing the air filter with a high flow model.

Scotty

The efficiency of a filter and the air system that supplies said filter with air does effect a few things with combustion. Air density, ambient air temp, intercooler efficiency, turbo charger efficiency map, etc etc.

Lets see the document that states in black and white that the oil filter or the air filter will void the warranty.
C'mon guys I gotta see it.

Also, cp, why would an engineer for Cummins at Cummins tell me that the air intake on the Dodge Ram is the weakest link in the application and needs improvement?

We have already noted improvements in mid range power with a different air intake on the 3rd gen Rams. On a stock truck.
Why?


???

cp

[quote author=Scotty link=board=17;threadid=12237;start=0#117766 date=1048035746]<br><br><br>Also, cp, why would an engineer for Cummins at Cummins tell me that the air intake on the Dodge Ram is the weakest link in the application and needs improvement?<br><br>We have already noted improvements in mid range power with a different air intake on the 3rd gen Rams. On a stock truck.<br>Why?<br><br><br> ???<br>[/quote]<br><br>Maybe that speaks volumes for the rest of the engine...after all, something has to be the 'weak link' doesn't it?<br><br>You've noted improvements in mid-range power in an engine that has a flat torque curve? A flat torque curve indicates fuel is being limited...there is already enough air in the cylinders to produce more horsepower but the fuel control system isn't sending it. That's why the torque curve is flat. But, adding more air to the equation boosted power? Hmmm...<br><br>Now it's my turn: How did adding air to a fuel (not air) limited engine improve power?

Scotty

[quote author=cp link=board=17;threadid=12237;start=0#117793 date=1048039589]<br>[quote author=Scotty link=board=17;threadid=12237;start=0#117766 date=1048035746]<br><br><br>Also, cp, why would an engineer for Cummins at Cummins tell me that the air intake on the Dodge Ram is the weakest link in the application and needs improvement?<br><br>We have already noted improvements in mid range power with a different air intake on the 3rd gen Rams. On a stock truck.<br>Why?<br><br><br> ???<br>[/quote]<br><br>Maybe that speaks volumes for the rest of the engine...after all, something has to be the 'weak link' doesn't it?<br><br>You've noted improvements in mid-range power in an engine that has a flat torque curve? A flat torque curve indicates fuel is being limited...there is already enough air in the cylinders to produce more horsepower but the fuel control system isn't sending it. That's why the torque curve is flat. But, adding more air to the equation boosted power? Hmmm...<br><br>Now it's my turn: How did adding air to a fuel (not air) limited engine improve power?<br>[/quote]<br><br>I was hoping you would be able to enlighten me.<br>Its something that truly did surprise us and other aftermarket manufacturers building intake systems.<br>My theory [I know sometimes theories are not the real thing] is that giving the engine more air tells the mass air sensor that theres is more available air, then the ECM gets the msg and it adds more fuel to balance the mix. TRICKED?<br>Also, since the system I designed is also giving the engine more outside air volume due to its design and position, this 'should' give some results like what we have experienced.<br>But what do I know...<br><br>The Scotty II does a great job of decreasing EGT and even on a stock truck. Cooldown is faster and egt is down another 50F from stock. Does that go against a theory or something else? I sure hope I am not overlooking something here.<br>This is for the 2nd gen trucks. We do not see that mid range improvement and guess what...no sensor on 2nd gen trucks. <br><br>

Push Rod

I'll go with Scotty on this one. The stock air boxes on both the 2nd gen and 3rd gen RAMs do NOT allow enough airflow, even in stock trim. On the 2nd gen ram, the addition of just about any aftermarket air system will reduce WOT EGTs, which tells me that the turbo/engine was looking for a little more air to help it cool down.<br><br>And on the 3rd gen RAM, do a WOT run with the stock airbox. The first thing you'll see is the filter minder being pulled down 1/3 to 2/3s. This is an absolute, inarguable indicator that for the given fueling levels of the stock truck, it wants more air than the factory box can give it. After the filter gets a little dirty, and you're pulling the minder all the way down, then you're just downright starving the truck for air.<br><br>So do you need an air system on a stock truck? On the 2nd gen, probably not. It would like more air, but its not hurting enough to require it. On the 3rd gen? Again, probably not, but it is definitely becoming much more important as the turbo is having to work for the air its asking for (evidenced by the filter minder being pulled down).<br><br>Rod

Kimrey

Thanks, Scotty and Pushrod. Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh CP, I have a boost elbow on my turbo. I can control the amount of boost I want, up to 32 psi. CP throw away at least the paper filter, and you will be able to tell a difference, just in sound it's self. That turbo will spin real quick like!<br><br>Kimrey

Luke S

I agree with what you guys are saying. I think the air box on the 03 is very restrictive. But, what I do know is, whenever we have any Dodge truck come in with a potential turbo problem and we call the techline to order parts(that is what we have to do on things like turbo's, pump's, etc. because they don't want dealers just throwing parts at it) the very first thing out of their mouth is, &quot;does it have a K&amp;N filter?&quot; If it does and I say it doesn't, and they somehow find out about it, their gonna do two things to us. First their gonna charge us back for the repair and probably fine us. Then, there gonna have auditors out here looking through every darn warranty claim we have submitted to them since the birth of Christ. We don't make the rules, we jsut pay the fines if we break them. And any dealer who doesn't have the same policy is skating on thin ice. We personally are not willing to risk our franchise with DC because somebody wants more power to outrun that powerstroke out on the interstate. How much is enough? I can run 85 mph with two fullsize trucks on my car hauler with my D/A in front of it, which is completely stock. : : :

Scotty

[quote author=Luke S link=board=17;threadid=12237;start=0#117932 date=1048084724]<br>I agree with what you guys are saying. I think the air box on the 03 is very restrictive. But, what I do know is, whenever we have any Dodge truck come in with a potential turbo problem and we call the techline to order parts(that is what we have to do on things like turbo's, pump's, etc. because they don't want dealers just throwing parts at it) the very first thing out of their mouth is, &quot;does it have a K&amp;N filter?&quot; If it does and I say it doesn't, and they somehow find out about it, their gonna do two things to us. First their gonna charge us back for the repair and probably fine us. Then, there gonna have auditors out here looking through every darn warranty claim we have submitted to them since the birth of Christ. We don't make the rules, we jsut pay the fines if we break them. And any dealer who doesn't have the same policy is skating on thin ice. We personally are not willing to risk our franchise with DC because somebody wants more power to outrun that powerstroke out on the interstate. How much is enough? I can run 85 mph with two fullsize trucks on my car hauler with my D/A in front of it, which is completely stock. : : :<br>[/quote]<br><br>Luke simply having an aftermarket filter in a vehicle will not void the warranty correct? I can see DC's stand on the warranty issues. If theres a failure related to an aftermarket product then its a different story.<br>I've always stated that if you wanna play be prepared to pay.<br>I have seen many oiled filters with TOO MUCH oil. I have also seen the K&amp;N panel filter fit not so good in the factory air box.<br>I had a factory filter in a factory box that was whisping dirt past the filter on my 96'. That is why I changed to what I use now.<br>Silicon levels...under 4 PPM.<br>A seal in a turbo can put the oily film on a turbo that would and could lead to a conclusion that the filter did it, not the turbo. Especially if the dealer needs to look for that to cover their butt when in fact it may have been the seal in the turbo that caused the problem, not the filter. Each situation can be different. Thats with stock and modified issues. I know that you are aware of that too. Time for a coffee...and I use a paper filter in the coffee maker...not one of those metal ones. <br><br><br><br>