03 Dodge Ram with 140,000 mi
I have been having a problem getting my truck to start when it is cold out side. I took my truck to Rocky Mountain Cummins and they say that the Injectors are leaking at the transfer tube connection to the injector. They recommend all new injectors and transfer tubes.
I would like to know what causes this with so few miles? There is another 03 model truck in their shop now with the same problem.
They want to put a new set of the same injectors (stock) in and they will warranty the repair. However, they will put in any brand part I bring them, but no warranty. Where do I go from here? This truck is stock and I am happy with how it performs. I am looking for reliability. How is the after market in regards to injectors? Who do you recommend? Will any after market warranty there parts and what about the labor to put them in a second time if they do have a problem?
Cummins wants $490.00 per injector and $50.00 per transfer tube. Can I get them for less either stock or aftermarket? I think I have read about rebuilding them Will this cure the leaking at the transfer tubes?
I am just looking for others advice on where to go from here.
Thanks

 

well several factors go into your main question of needing new injectors..

if you do not have two micron filtration, and run your tank lower than 1/4 even on occasion, and you haven't had your injectors tested... if even one of those three is a yes, then you probably do..

two micron filtration is needed to keep these injectors happy, the factory five micron is not good enough as per bosch standards for these injectors, they need two micron, but even with the best and cleanest fuel, with 28000 psi going through them, think of 6 lil plasma cutters going into your pistons, and parts in them, check valves and so forth do tend to wear out.

did you have fuel in your oil? hard starts only at the start of the day? first start? or consistently... at the mileage that your injectors have on them, id say have them tested first, and then go from there.. my money is you might have one or more that went bad.. far as the hard start goes, if its only in the first start, they might be leaking down overnight, which also means that that injector is going bad... or injectors.. bodies can crack, and let fuel into the crankcase, and tips can crack as well, and possibly wash out a piston, if they are not working or firing..

did the place tell you which injector was not working? also is the wiring harness ok? other questions I would ask having been there and done that with injectors myself...

crossover tubes.. well, while you are there, may as well do them and get them out of the way while you are in there too... new ones are cheap insurance.. I had to redo my injectors because I was too lazy and cheap to get them.. and what I got was experience on how to do CR injectors a second time stuuupiddd!!! is what I said... I had one with a hairline crack that was making the truck harder to start...should have examined them closer the first time...

you wanna make the truck more reliable? go with genuine bosch new injectors if the piggy bank allows, I run remans on my truck and have been trouble free for 25K miles, and brand new ones on my dads that have been in there about the same... bosch injectors... I would also run a 2 micron filtration system like the one from GDP, try not to let it run below a 1/4 tank too often, and use an additive every so often. Take care of your truck and it will take care of you.. now far as the parts wearing out? check valves etc and what not, not much you can do about that unfortunately... just an Achilles heel on the CR motor...

far as people warranting their labor and so forth? cant help you there, every shop is different.. The guys I got local will warranty their labor, but on my truck it was me... its not too hard a job if you take your time, but its a pain in the *** the first time you do it... took me the good part of a day the first time to do it..

now aftermarket? you bet theres aftermarket.. I hate to tell you this though, but they are around the same price that cummins quoted you... I bought mind through a local M&D Diesel dealer, and got all six reman'd for 2000 out the door with cores returned, dads with new bodies were 500 more. so they are not cheap... and well so far so good on both ends...

because the common rail is a higher pressure system than the old 12 valve and VP trucks they do have some quirks, the injectors unfortunately is one of them...

common sence tells me, that if your cummins will put in stock injectors from them, and they warranty the labor too... no brainer stick with that.. and if it is cummins, I doubt they will use Chinese crap, IIRC cummins OEM injectors are genuine bosch... so id say go for it... and don't look back if you are happy with stock.... only question is now.. will they use remans? or brand new bodied injectors?

secondly, other aftermarket... lots of options are around, but F1 diesel injectors have developed a very solid reputation if you want some from a reputable shop... im sure that there are more shops, and sorry if im forgetting anyone important... but this is from the top of my head as we speak... when I decide to twin my 05, and get a built auto in it, F1 is where id be sending mine for a rebuild and tip upgrade to 90 horse or so.... just gotta feed the piggy bank enough on my play fund to do so.. oh and after the 12 valve in my sig....

also, any DTC codes present?

hope the above helped.. at least a little bit.... it was food for thought

Thanks

 

thanks for the reply.
I am running stock fuel filtration and run this truck below 1/4 tank routinely. I am confused on injector failures. The way mine was explained to me is that the injectors are fine it is where they seals to the transfer tubes is where the problem is. Can this still be from fuel contamination? The injectors have not been tested I am reluctant to spend the money and then only fix a few to have more problems soon after. Leaning towards just replacing all of them.
No codes. Are cross over tubes the same as transfer tubes?

 

ok at the risk of sounding like a complete horses rear..

what is it that confuses you about injector failures? Injectors are fine, visually yes perhaps, have they been tested to see if they are good? IE pulled and tested on a stand? at the mileage that they have, that is cheap insurance to have it done.. and will ultimately answer your question that injectors are fine or not.. Let me get this straight here, CUMMINS said they were fine with just a visual inspection???? I don't like the sound of that, and enough reading and research on here, and other sites will tell you that anything over 100K is pretty good life for these injectors.. moreso because you don't have the 2 micron recommended filtration.. back on your topic.... they didn't suggest testing them while you were there? I had mine tested when I knew that they were hung open, just to see how many were bad.. in my case three hung open on mine, and three were killed on my dads truck with ONE BAD TANK of fuel, plugged up three injectors, thus the hard lesson for two micron filtration....

also, you run your tank low, you could pick up crap and contaminate and or plug up the injector tips, which is a possibility for an injector that could hang open, or a valve in the injector that could stick (Ie check valve) and return too much fuel to the tank, and or cause leakdown overnight, thus a symptom for hard starts... also as stated, with such high PSI going through the CR fuel system, it is only natural for parts to wear out, CR injection is 28000 psi or so as opposed to the much lower pressure from a 12 valve or VP truck... plain and simple, if you crack a line open with the truck running, the spray can severely hurt you... now mind you that is a lot of PSI going through the injector tip.. thus parts can wear out and fail....

bottom line on the above, if you don't test them, you wont know for sure... for all that you know, you may only have bad seals at the cross over tubes, and good injectors... you wont know till you test them... to answer about the crossover tubes, not sure if bad fuel will cause it, but consider the high psi, and the fact that you run your tank low often....

cross over tubes, yes they are the same as transfer tubes.. They connect the hard lines to the injectors on your truck.

you are on the right idea of fixing them all in one fall swoop, better than paying labor several times over for doing one at a time.

I mean no disrespect, and please don't take this in a wrong way.. internet content can be taken out of context very easily, and I don't mean to sound the like the south end of a northbound donkey...

Respectfully

Rick

 

No offence taken. I appreciate your willingness to help. Cummins didn't really say my injectors where fine. They said they are leaking at the transfer tubes. They are not sure how many. They tried to re torque and it did not help. They still have my truck and are waiting for me to tell them what to do. They said I could try new cross over tubes, but didn't suggest it. They suggest all new injectors and new transfer tubes. They didn't say anything about pulling them out to test them. How much does that cost? I don't know enough about this stuff to know what to do. Thats why I Tend to think just replace them all. But I don't want to pay for something that I don't need.

 

I doubt it is due to the cross-over tubes. This is a common issue on a CR truck. The way to tell which injectors are bad is by doing a return flow test on each one while in the truck. If you do replace the injectors it is best to replace the cross-over tubes at the same time.

 

spooler is on the money on this one..

how much does the test cost? of the top of my head I cannot remember, but the test spooler stated is spot on for the process of checking them while they are still in the truck...also they probably suggested new injectors for one of two things.. one, they know the problems with injectors on this generation of trucks, or two they are trying to make a sale... either ways, odds are IMHO that you have at least one bad injector...

 

The $490 per injector is about $90 above the going rate. So you can save about $600 by getting the exact same genuine bosch injector by going somewhere else... but then how much is that warranty worth to you? The part will be warrantied regardless, but labor... no. No one is going to do both. The people that sell the part are not going to warranty someone elses labor.
And the people doing the labor are not going to warranty someone elses part.

Shop around for price. Peak Diesel, Industrial Injection, F1, Mumau (for all your cummins parts), DDP, Scheid... there are others; just make sure they are a reputable company. I bought all 6 crossover tubes from Mumau a couple years ago for about $160--- close to 1/2 what you were quoted. I don't know how much they have gone up since.

140,000 miles may not seem like a lot... it isn't with the engine internals but CR injectors are a different story. They do wear internally from the high pressures and the solenoids tend to slow in response rates.

You can spend the money to have them checked out (a bench test isn't cheap either at about $175-200 for a set) or just replace.

Remanufactured at about $270-300 per stick is an option too.

 

I see reman. bosch injectors for about $260 on ebay. Then I guess I still need trasfer tubes at $50 each. That would come in about $1400 cheaper than just going with new injectors and transfer tubes from cummins and I get the warranty if I just have the shop handle it. Thats a lot of money, but it is the safe bet. I will ask about the test spooler suggested. Maybe I only need a few. Would it be worth doing the test and only replacing the problem injectors?

 

No, do not use Ebay.... Get them from a reputable dealer only.


The reason I say this is I have read countless threads of folks going on the cheap having major issues. Use one of the folks posted above.

My choice would be F1, Exergy, or Scheid.

 

Agreed!! Do not use e-bay for something like this.

There are only a few folks I'd consider remans from. (Then again, I don't care for remans either)
They are a tricky thing and will get very expensive very fast if they are not right.