I changed my oil at 2200 miles because I couldn't wait... impatient ya know. As we all know, the oil was black as coal and within 10 miles of driving with new oil, it too was black. I've read all the threads about the third injection event and stuff like that, but for the life of me, I can't understand how this oil gets this much "soot" in such a short amount of time. How exactly does soot get into the oil? Past the rings? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I'm not an engineer, but I've been wrenching for about ten years and have built a few stout big blocks in my time.
Just looking for an explaination other than "third injection event" that I think is B.S.

Tony

 

I guess I'll try to respectfully say that it's not total bs. There is a third injection event which is not a complete combustion. As far as I know this was done to increase the heat, so the CAT could work properly. This incomplete combustion causes a lot more soot to go in the oil. What else could it be? The 03-04 trucks will go 7500 miles with the oil still clear on the dipstick. This is only a 600 issue, so I think you should try to isolate the differences between the two engines to find your answer.

Realistically, almost all diesels blacken the oil right away. It's more of an abnormality and amazing phenomenon that the 03-04 engines were so clean. I think some folks saw that and then wondered what was wrong with their later model engines.

For the record, black does not = bad. If it makes you feel better my mercedes and vw tdi's both blackened the oil before I got them out of the driveway after an oil change!! No joke, as soon as the benz would start up again and I'd check it, the oil was looking dark to black. Oil analysis on that very car regularly comes back with 0.1 - 0.3 % soot.

 

I hear yah Lightman. I have the 04 and when I checked my oil @1k looked like honey. I check it a 2k, looked like honey. Watched in the dealership drain it @ 3k, looked like honey. Was wondering if the stuff ever gets circulated. Popped the hood of a 05 when I was @ the dealership - BLACK! Only 237 miles on it too. Something is different, that's for sure.

 

My 99 would look black after 50 miles.

I think its a bit of an exageration to say that the 555 engines don't turn the oil black. I think they do.

I think its more about the higher compression ratio added to running positive manifold pressures (boost) that pushes oil (and fuel) past the rings a little more than your basic naturally aspirated gasoline engine.

 

Actually they don't. My 03 HO will be honey, all the way to the oil change. All this EPA garbage has they trucks running so clean, that there is very little soot. When was the last time you saw a 3rd gen (stock) smoke, especially the 350/555 series?

Now...........
My truck is turning the oil black now after the Quad chip install. This is my first oil chane with it installed with 32k on the truck.

 

dads 02 (stock exept BHAF) stay pretty close to new during the full 5000 miles thats he runs it for, its a esso 0w40, mine has black streaks when i check the level while changing oil

an old trucker told me keep the rpm down, for cleaner looking oil, 2200 and less, dad always drives like that, where im starting to

 

Not at all actually - it's one of the most amazing things about the 03-04's. It'a actually the combination of the efficient HPCR injection along with the LACK of emissions stuff on 03-04's that cause them to be so clean. No egr, cat, and open crankcase ventilation.

Even tho I have an oil bypass system, after 20k on my last run of oil, it was only brownish, not black. I don't have the dual setup currently on as I was switching mounts and haven't gotten around to it, and this last 7500 mile run with the quad box looked about the same - still not black but the overfueling definitely adds some soot to the oil.

I still wouldn't be upset if I had black oil as in the 600's - it could be a lot worse! Most oil analyses I've seen on 600's still have low soot levels. Imagine you had closed crankcase ventilation and EGR Ever seen a VW TDI intake manifold? I had one and it's not a pretty or fun thing to clean out...

 

Not at all actually - it's one of the most amazing things about the 03-04's. It'a actually the combination of the efficient HPCR injection along with the LACK of emissions stuff on 03-04's that cause them to be so clean. No egr, cat, and open crankcase ventilation.


Both engines (610 and 555) are HPCR
Neither engine has EGR.
Both engines have opencrankcase vents

The compression stroke is where you get blowby. The 3rd injection event happens after the compression stroke, during the exhaust stroke as the exhaust valve comes open, so that's not it either.

Back to my point, most things reported to be "amazing" are exaggerated.

 

I'm aware both have hpcr, no egr, and open ccv. What the 600 engines have is a CAT, and the changes they make to the ECU , whatever they may be (3rd injection event or other) help the engine run hot enough to make the CAT effective. I'm not professing the 3rd injection event is the sole reason or even the reason at all - I'm just saying the difference in soot lies in the difference between the 04 and 04.5.

Bigblock2stroke - have you owned an 03-04? You can call it bs all you like, but there are more than enough people here with 555's that can tell you the oil stays remarkably clear after many miles.

 

Lightman, bigblock and others who have replied; Not to rehash what you've said because I respect all your opinions, but so far, I don't think any of us have really gotten to the truth.

Maybe I need some schooling. Anyway, the way I see it, on the compression stroke, the compressed air from the turbo is further compressed by the piston and at some time at or near TDC (top dead center) the injector fires. (I think I'm ok so far). Under high pressure, this diesel fuel hits the very hot compressed air and "BANG".... Then what happens? another shot of diesel, then another after that?? If that is the case, it still doesn't explain sooty oil. Not to me anyway. If that third shot occurs when the exhaust valve is just opening then that release of pressure will push it right out the exhaust and not down the cylinder. I don't get it.

Maybe I need to understand why some say diesels will darken oil more than a gasser anyway. Maybe therein lies the truth. It still bothers me, as black as it gets. Maybe we can get some 12valve guys to respond here. How does their oil look after a change?

Anyhow, I love this truck more than any other I have owned, and that's alot. It's my first diesel and I'm truly hooked on the power and everything else about the Cummins. I drive around 90% of the time with the radio off just to listen to the sound.... I think I'm getting strange.

Tony

 

Trik396, that sounds like good logic to me - as I said it may not be the 3rd injection event for the reason you specify - I don't claim to know why. I just know the 04.5+ blacken the oil, run hotter, and smoke more than 305/555's.

 

With just my EZ, mine gets black quick. I couldn't comment about stock, It would kill me to run stock for a whole oil change to verify if it is the boxs on mine that blacken the oil.

 

My oil turns black and so does the quarter panel on my white truck. I don't care about the oil,but it irks me about the quarter panel.

 

Its a DIESEL.Get a tailpipe extension!

 

I see the "third" injection event has turned up again. This topic was brought up with the first HPCR back in 03 and I checked it with a lab scope at work and there are only two injection events. Anyone have any actual proof of this new event?, or am I going to have to grab another truck off the lot.