huntram

FYI: My Dodge dealer could not give me a diffinitave answer to what EGT's were not acceptable with my 04.5 CTD. They told me that Dodge WILL not answer that to them... So.... I called local Cummins shop and asked.
They tell me that the truck will de-rate before any damage can be done,..even with a module. Not to worry about it???
I also sent an e-mail to Cummins, inc. This is the response I got:

Summary: EGT

Solution:
Thanks for your Email message. You have contacted Cummins, Inc. at our Customer Assistance Center located in Columbus, Indiana. This is our worldwide headquarters and has been our home since Clessie Cummins founded the company February 3, 1919.

We do not recommend installing EGT sensors in the exhaust stream and certainly not before the turbo. The high temperatures there can fail the sensor and send parts of it through the very expensive turbocharger.
We do not publish exhaust temperature limits and feel they are unneeded on unmodified engines.

Interesting.. I guess I should not have put in the pyro in the manifold..

Brian

RamWheelsBy4

Too much liability for either Cummins or DC to define what would be acceptable EGTs pre turbo. As you can see neither will even approve of pyro sensor in the exhaust stream.

jrussell

This simply amazes me. DC puts out a truck that will hit unsafe EGT's while unloaded with no failsafe and no gauge.

Yeah, if we all just ignore the EGT's they can't possibly cause any harm!

RustyJC

Common practice with larger industrial engines is to have a type K thermocouple in each cylinder's exhaust elbow as well as one (or more) at the turbocharger inlet as standard equipment. A post-turbo thermocouple is an option and generally only purchased by those who are interested in a rough idea of turbocharger performance or those who have a waste heat boiler downstream of the turbocharger.

Rusty

03 ant a hemi

IF your truck is hitting damaging heats unmodified, then I guess you now have engine damge and need to take it in for some work.

We go with the 1200/1300 deg mark as a reference for Aluminium Piston melting.
But inside the cylinder the temps may be more or less. The oil cooling that happens inside of the piston helps to keep temps down. Yet allows hotter temps to be reached.
Do we really know the actual cylinder temps, no. Will they tell us, no.

Are you really causing any problems with your stock truck keeping it at 1300degs driving up hill. Yes hard use will decrease the life of an engine. Are you going to have a catostosphic failure no. Unless the safetys are reached.

As Cummins Stated the truck will defuel long before it causes engine damage.
Figure out where your truck defuels in stock form and then use that number -50-100 degs.

jrussell

This is the first I've heard of the 3rd Gens defueling due to unsafe EGT's. How can the ECU determine when to defuel if there is no pyro probe in the system? Also, if there is a failsafe how come more than one '06 has melted down from excessive EGT's?

bigwheels94

I'm with you jrussel.The ecu hasn't a clue what the EGT is,& WILL NOT derate for high EGT's. I also got ahold of Cummins about this verry subject when I bought my 04,5.(As a Cummins dealer,I have access that others don't.)They told me"under the table" that they are OK up to1100* post turbo.Pyro mounted in the center of the cast iron down pipe.They wouldn't even tell me what it was pre turbo,so I did some testing.I have pyro's on both sides,& @ 1100* post turbo,I was @ 1400* pre turbo.I also checked out the posted info for the new QSB 480,& found they list it as Max of 1330* manifold temp.This is a marine engine with a more efficient aftercooler,but at the same time, they warranty this engine for 1 hour out of every 8 at full power. I have my limit set @ 1425* manifold temp.

03 ant a hemi

My truck in stock form defuels when the Pyro which is mounted post turbo hits 950 (+/-) 25 degs.
As for how it does it or how it functions I cannot much tell you. I do know that they have multiple sensors through out the enine for this very reason.

I have yet to hear of any stock truck having a failure from melt down.

I have heard of many that have had melt down after installing modified sensors, programmer, chips etc.
I have also heard of others who have had piston melt from malfunctioning injectors. But that was usually over a period of time and not a one shot deal. And has usually takne out one piston which in turn took out the engine.

Beleive what you want, hear what you want, make up what you want. Cummins is correct saying that a stock truck will not cook itself.

A slightly modified truck will cook itself.


On a note I had the 24hr BD trial on a 03 and it would defuel in or around 950 post turbo also as it didnt change the factory defualts for safety backdowns.
That is true first hand expierance with my truck and a buddies. Again take it or leave it for what it's worth.

John DiMartino

Cummins knows the HO's hit 1450 EGT's bone stock,and built the engine accordingly.If you leave it stock it will be fine.The 250/305HP engines however will not live long at hi EGT,they like to drop valve seats and eat engines when they get turned up and the pyro is ingored.

bigwheels94

Cummins builds these engines for dodge with no warrany.They don't care if they blow up.Thats why they only run the ISB under thier name up to 300 HP.And those are only for fire trucks,etc.They also have a VG turbo,& some other goodies,like 2mic. fuel filters.Think what you like,but know this.If you run these engines @ wot for too long,they WILL melt down.(I've seen 1500* bone stock ) That's why I did the mods.

bob4x4

So not true!!!!! Of course Cummins cares if they blow up.
#1 Cummins does not want a rep for engine failure
#2 D/C pays for Cummins tech assistance.

Bob

no_6_oh_no

Thats cuz it has hit the top of the fuel map, not because of the temps. Thats about right for a a stock 03, enough fuel to hit 1200-1300 degrees pre-turbo. No sensors, no control, just a fuel curve.

FYI, the combustion temps can run anywhere from 4000 to 6000 degrees depending on fuel, timing, air, etc.

RAMRODD

On my 06 the egts will go down about 50 when I turn the TST on 1/1. It is hard to get the egts up to 1350 on a big hill with the TST on 2/2 I think if you see 1500 on a stock truck something is wrong.

bigwheels94

Ok,Ok. Cummins does care if the engine blows.But not to the same extent that they do with one of thier own.The engines are built to run at high temps,but they are fueled to a point that they will damage themselves.I hit 1500* on a climb of several miles @ 6%-8% grades weighing 11,000 lbs.I planted my foot,& held it there to see what it would do.It hit 1400* in seconds,& slowly climbed to 1500* in a couple minutes.I backed out of it,or I'm sure it would have gone higher.I only did it that one time as a test,& I bought a bunch of stuff to cool it down right after.But it proves that these engines will melt down if pushed too hard.The Cummins ISB series engines in the med. duty trucks are not fueled to the same point as the ones they build for dodge.After all.Dodge pays for the warranty,not Cummins.

signature600

You held 1400*+ for a couple minutes?? If that's not abuse, I don't know what is! I don't go over 1400 for more than 30 seconds or so...ever!

Chris