I am posting information from DODGETALK.com forum under the AMSOIL dealer on that site in my posts to him....I think you will find it to be an eye opener...


" Okay, I'be been reading alot about synthetics on this forum and over at DTR. I changed my truck over to AMSOIL & REDLINE products at 7200 miles and am running the Stratapore Oil Filter.

On the AMSOIL home page under Dodge Products it states you can run 7500-10K on the oil filter and then 15-20K until you change the oil/filter completely without an oil anlysis.

Under the 15w-40 Marine Diesel oil it states you can double the manufactures oil change intervals or change the oil every 6months?

I find this to be conflicting information.

If I'm not going to use oil analysis should I just use the 7500 Sched B or 15k Schedule A recommended by Dodge for oil and filter changes?

Don't know if you've answered this before..
thanks "


THE AMSOIL Dealer's response:

" Those recommendations are primarily for the Series 3000 5w-30 Heavy Duty diesel oil.

For the 15w-40 oil, it is warrantied by Amsoil for up to 2 times the normal interval or 6 months. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf or http://www.amsoil.com/products/ame.html

To be safe, keep your mileage under 10,000 miles or 6 months and then do an oil analysis to see what the oil looks like.

Based on this UOA, the oil will last quite a bit longer. Amsoil no longer warranties their oil past their recommended oil change interval unless you are under the Trigard plan (dual bypass, Flozair oil filter, Amsoil oil, and you do analysis at prescribed intervals).

If an oil analysis result says the oil is still good after 6 months and they recommend you keep driving, you are doing so based on their recommendations not under Amsoil's warranty.

Here is the UOA i was referring to: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb...c;f=26;t=000044


Here is a PSD example: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb...c;f=26;t=000066


Keep in mind that the 15,000 mile Schedule A drain interval is in most cases optimistic when using petroleum oil.

Bill, "


My response back to him 2-25-04

" I came home tonight and was looking at the AMSOIL literature..The AMSOIL Products Change Interval Guide for the Heavy-Duty and Turbocharged Diesel Engines it states up to 2 times longer with oil analysis or 6 mon. Then you go down to the fine print #2 and it states AMSOIL service interval recommendations are whichever comes first - months, miles, or hours.

So based your response and this information, If I only go 4000 miles in 6 months, I have to change the oil regardless of the results of an oil analysis, in order to be covered by the AMSOIL warranty, correct? "

His response 2-2504 at 9:48pm Texas Time:

"Yes, You can run your oil longer by basing it on oil analysis but the burden is shifted to you at that point."


SIDE BAR: Why the heck am I paying $20 for a gallon of oil if I have to change it at 6 months or 7500 Miles which is what DODGE says to do with dino oil? Guess who is going to be changing his oil at Schedule B 7500 miles until I reach the 7 year, 100,000 miles mark? Me...that's who..

So much for extended drain interval claims and oil companies'
false paperwork...

Bottom line is Buyer Beware!

 

the dealer has been changing mine at 3k for free. Don't I feel good.

 

Here's my .02 worth your disgruntled post.
If you are like most people that have a CTD and drive it, then you will far exceed the 7500 miles in the 6 month time. I myself have put 10k miles on my truck in less than 30 days, so for that period I installed AMSOIL at the beginning of the trip and let it stay in for the full time. Yes it was only 30 days but it was well worth running the oil for the time period because by my oil change interval I was suppose to have changed the oil 3 times because I have the 235 Cali engine.
If you infact install the Bypass system and use AMSOIL's air and oil filter then you can even extend your drain interval further. If you perform the oil anlysis then you could possibly extend the oil even longer.
Yes if your dealer is changing your oil for free every 3k miles or whenever then go for it. For those of us who won't let the dealer change the time on the radio we will spend the extra money for the higher grade oils and do it or self and reap the benifits that it gives us such as lower rpms and cooler running engines.
But that is just my .02 worth

 

This is my second Dodge Cummins and I plan to do just what I did with the first in regards to engine oil. Fleetguard filters and change oil and filter every 5000 miles using Shell Rotella 15w-40. No matter what oil you use, it still gets dirty.

I'm going to buy into using synthetics in the drive line ( Mobile1- axles, Redline- trans) but I still think using dino in the engine is still the best and most cost effective way to go. Just my .02

 

Yeah any oil you use does get dirty, but after looking under the valve covers of a lot of Cummins engines it's easy to spot the ones that have run synthetics most their life. . .they're the ones that still look like new.

Vaughn

 

I totally agree with you. This is the same combo I currently use. Since I really don't tow too much I change the oil every 10K miles....a compromise between 7500 and 15,000. It looks very clean coming out and there is no doubt I could probably run it 15K if needed.

 

Ditto on the Rotella, but I just use the mopar filter every 5-6K.

 

Okay continuing the posts responses:

From the Amsoil Rep,

" I asked Amsoil's tech service this exact question a while ago, and here was their response:

Oil Analysis and Warranty Information

Q. In the TriGard plan AMSOIL 100% warranties the oil provided all the requirements are met for the plan. I can't find any warranty information regarding the regular oil analysis non-TriGard plan. Does AMSOIL still warranty oil with this plan provided the test shows the oil is still good?

A. The AMSOIL Lubricant Warranty does not extend to use beyond those intervals and or recommendations indicated in writing by AMSOIL Inc. This holds true even in applications in which oil analysis is used in determining extended use intervals. As we have no control over the analysis being performed or the interpretation of the analysis results we could not guarantee performance beyond posted recommendation."

His response again:

" Rossn2,

Your still misunderstanding Amsoil's warranty stance. With the 15w-40 oil you can double the MFR recommended oil change interval (be it 7500 or 15,000) miles as long as you do it within the 6 month time period. you don't need the Trigard equipment for this interval to qualify for the warranty.

To qualify for Amsoil's TriGard plan you need Amsoil's dual bypass system, oil, and two stage air filter. With this plan, you mail in oil samples for analysis (at prescribed intervals) and you can continue using the same oil provided you meet the above requirements and you use Amsoil's oil analysis lab for as long as the UOAs say the oil is still good. 100,000 miles is not out of the question.

To go above an beyond the 2 times the regular interval / 6 months and still be warrantied by Amsoil, you would need to follow the TriGard rules.

Here is an example of how long Amsoil diesel oil can last when using the bypass system: This Dodge Cummins pick-up went 329,000 miles without a full oil change. All that was done were filter replacements and oil top-offs. http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=26;t=000031 "


My response this am:

Okay, it's the next day...Truck started nice and easy, and quiet too...

So here goes....

The 15-40W recommendation, under the Recommended Drain Intervals paperwork, Note #2 says " it means up to 2 or 3 times the equipment manf. recommendation. Amsoil service interval recommendations are whichever comes first - motnhs, miles, or service." Under Note 6 " all drain intervals can be extended (with analysis) indefinitely by using Amsoil By-pass Oil Filtration and an Amsoil Oil-wetted Foam Air Filter."

In the warranty answered you posted above " The AMSOIL Lubricant Warranty does not extend to use beyond those intervals and or recommendations indicated in writing by AMSOIL Inc. This holds true even in applications in which oil analysis is used in determining extended use intervals. As we have no control over the analysis being performed or the interpretation of the analysis results we could not guarantee performance beyond posted recommendation. "

Maybe it's just me being over 40, loosing my senses.... but the statement " This holds true even in applications in which oil analysis is used in determining extended use intervals. "

So, if the manufacturer's interval is 6 months or 7500 miles, am I not "extending the use interval" by going over that recommendation, even using the oil analysis, and the Amsoil Oil warranty is void?

Okay, I'm shaking my head now, going what #$%^), shaking my head again and I need another cup of coffee. I'm not a lawyer, and hopefully never have to have to go to court over the warranty statement, but I interpret the above warranty statement as an out, in legalize terms. "

I'm going to drop this post, I've started a hornet's nest, and did not mean to do so. I apologize if I have offended any Amsoil rep's or users. My intenet was clarification on "extended drain intervals", as I find it greyish, as advertised on the Amsoil product. I'm doubly confused on the extended oil drain warranty.

I believe in the cold-start, noise reductions, possible mpg increase, cooler running qualities of synthetics. So, I'll continue to use the product, but will change at Dodge recommendation of 7500/15K miles...

 

SIDE BAR: Why the heck am I paying $20 for a gallon of oil if I have to change it at 6 months or 7500 Miles which is what DODGE says to do with dino oil? Guess who is going to be changing his oil at Schedule B 7500 miles until I reach the 7 year, 100,000 miles mark? Me...that's who..

So much for extended drain interval claims and oil companies'
false paperwork...

Bottom line is Buyer Beware! [/B][/QUOTE]

I have been asking this same question for years. Why the heck pay $20 a gallon for syn oil when you have to change it just as often. For those that say it will make the engine last longer, I will wager that 90% of those same people never see 100K miles. So theyre just waisting their money. Much to the delight of the Syn oil makers.

With regard to what the syn oil manufacturer say about their products and DC's warranty or ford or chevy. It means nothing!! The only thing that matters is what DC says. Look in your owners manual and your owners warranty explantion booklet. If the product your using is not specifically approved by DC then you will be out of luck should you have a warranty realated failure. Reference the thread, not too long ago, about the guy that put amzoil atf in his 48re. Tranny craps out at 37K. DC says, sorry charlie no coverage, unapproved atf. Oh by the way, all ATF fluid is synthetic to begin with. So just by MOPAR ATF and you have synthetic tranny fluid.

Hello is anybody listening. The syn oils will never pay for themselves in a million miles of driving you'll never see a positive result. The increase in fuel mileage is so small it is only measurable in ones imagination and if the syn product is not approved by DC, your warranty is in jeporady.

Now having said all that. There is a place for the syn product. In the extremely cold climates and I mean real cold. The syn motor oil maintains it's viscosity, so the motor starts much easier and everything is nicely lubed real quick. But, it must be a DC approved oil. Which ones are approved???? Beats me, wouldn't give one a second glance, but I am sure plenty of guys have researched this and know which are and aren't.

Geeeez, way too much talking!!!!!

 

My intended use of synthetic oil in the truck will be like that in both of our cars, which will be a blend. I qt of synthetic with 4 qts of dino oil in the car has resulted in a better running engine in both cars, but especially in the +163k mile 93 Taurus. I started using the synthetic blend at about 100k miles, and it seemed to provide some gentle cleaning which smoothed out the engine. I'm guessing that the blend helped to break up some sludge and/or varnish, and freed up some sticky lifters among other parts. I'll probably start using a Delvac 1 and 1300 blend with the next oil change in the truck, which will be 15k miles, and will probably use 2 qts of Delvac 1 with 10 qts of Delvac 1300.

 

That makes sense that it may help clean the engines lube system up and smooth things out. Years ago it was always a good idea on an older engine to dump a qt of ATF fluid in with each oil change. IE: 4 qts of dino and one of atf. THe idea being the same. Clean out the sludge, open the lube ports and holes and smooth things out.

 

Incredulous.

 

Could be, but that was always the old mechanics tale. I'd say the thing thing about synthetics. Incredulous.

 

Today's heavy duty diesel oils contain far more detergent/dispersant additives than does ATF. The only thing accomplishing by adding ATF today would be thinning the overall viscosity a bit.

If you have a sludged/varnish built-up engine, go to www.auto-rx.com and order several bottles of their cleaner. This stuff will SLOWLY clean the insides of the engine, without affecting the oil's viscosity.

And thanks for sharing amsoil's marketing ploy on extended drains. I certainly will not spend $20 a gallon on their oil any longer.

 

I go 12k on dino oil, with an analysis. It always comes out perfect. Even in my old powerstrokes (they hate dirty oil because of the HEUI injectors) Put the $$ for early oil changes and synthetic stuff (unless as stated you live in the Arctic or race) into a university fund for your kids. You'll never know the difference.