rstl99

Hi again,
Based on collective knowledge on this forum, I have decided to narrow my search for a truck to 2nd Gen 12-valve Cummins trucks.

My intended usage:
1. All around occasional driving in the city (though probably not in winter)
2. Hauling stuff to and from the cottage (an hour's highway drive from my city house)
3. Hauling my Alaskan 10 foot slide-in camper for:
a) Camping and fishing trips within a day of where I live
b) Longer journeys in North-America (up North, Southwest, etc.)

I don't envision going off-road, or down very marginal roads (ie. old muddy logging roads in search of remote fishing or camping sites). Some of the northern roads (Labrador, James Bay, Alaska) may be gravel, but still maintained roads.

Some of my main criteria are:
1. 3/4 ton (or 1 ton) capacity, for hauling the camper
2. single rear-wheels (for ease of sliding the camper on and off)
3. full 8 foot bed
4. preferably extended cab, but not absolutely necessary
5. reasonable level of comfort (noise, suspension, seating) for long highway runs
6. RELIABILITY and reasonable maintenance costs
7. affordability (want to spend $10K max on the truck)
8. automatic transmission (so my GF can take the wheel now and then)
9. hopefully, somewhere around 20mpg highway driving (for long run$)

Given all this, I am debating whether I should opt for 2x4 or 4x4. In particular, given possible impact of 4x4 on reliability/repairs, and general driving comfort. I know that in some situations 4x4 may come in handy, but I'm not sure I want to compromise 95% of my driving's comfort for access to 4x4 5% of the time. I figure 2x4 would also be cheaper to buy, since most everyone around where I live (snow belt) wants a 4x4 for driving in snow/ice.

Thoughts, advice very welcome. Thanks.

macattack_ga

Sure, you can get by w/ a 2x4...

If I were you I would get the best condition truck I could find. 12-valves are getting old.

With a big slide-in you may want to re-thing the SRW (DRW = more stability).

klx650a2

Since you're in ontario, here is my 2 cents as a fellow Canadian. Even though you say you won't use it much in winter, get the 4 wd. A friend has the exact truck you are thinking about and its an absolute nightmare anytime there is snow on the ground. He put 1600 lbs of plate steel in the back just so he can move. If you have a big camper to put in, go with the dual rear wheels, MUCH more stable.

Plus the resale value will be much higher if you go with 4wd.

bludodge21111

I think going with a 4 wheel drive truck is the smart way to go. I dont think that it compromises driveability really and you never know when your gonna need it. DRW's are nice but the fuel mileage isn't gonna be as great due to more weight and lower gearing but it might be best for what you want. Just somethin to think about...

SIXSLUG

If you can avoid the snow/ice conditions I'd go 3500 2wd. The duals are a lot more stable than the singles when a camper is in the bed. DRW won't affect sliding the camper in/out.

You will like the extra bit of space in a Club Cab over the standard.

The 2wd will turn a little tighter than a 4X4 and will probably get a bit better mileage per gallon than a similarly loaded 4X4.

Finding a 12V 3500 with less than 100K is gonna be tough, especially under 10 grand.

rstl99

Thanks for all your views and insights. Sounds like consensus points to 4x4 being preferred over 2x4, all things being equal.

I have read in some posts (maybe more referring to 1st Gen trucks) that 4x4 3/4 ton trucks had a very rough ride, and that 2x4 had a smoother ride. I was going on that premise and my comfort criteria to question whether I wanted to go 4x4.

Sounds like for 2nd Gen, the comfort level is not seriously affected by 4x4. And that although 4x4 will necessitate extra maintenance (and possibly, repairs), it may be a very handy thing to have from time to time. So I'll focus my sights on a 4x4. Resale value being a good advantage too, as you pointed out.

I suppose the other point that's been raised is SRW versus DRW. I personally don't like the look of a DRW truck, and obviously it poses some challenges re: parking in the driveway etc. Plus more tires means more wear and costly tire changes, added weight of the rear axle, reduced MPG, etc.

I can imagine that a DRW truck is more stable with a big slide-in truck camper on the back. However my Alaskan, for those who are not familiar with them, is a hard-sided camper weighing about 2,000 pounds wet, with a lower and higher portion. When driving, the higher portion is lowered so it looks more like a truck cap on steroids (lower center of gravity, less wind drag, less prone to side winds). When at the campsite, the top part is hydraulically raised to create the spacious interior camping space. GIven that, I don't think that a DRW is as helpful in that kind of camper, as opposed to some of the large and heavier hard-sided slide-ins. Make sense?

Hodge

Personally, and I mean this in the sense of preference rather than good/bad, I don't like a dually. I probably would if I had a need, but they have never appealed to me asthetically, and I don't like the extra size. So, if it were me, I would REALLY need that extra stability to get a dually.
As far as 4WD vs 2WD in reference to maintenance, both wear out. Both have brakes, ball joints, control arms, tie rods, sway bars, shocks, bearings, etc. The only difference between the two are u-joints, a drive shaft, some gears, and a CAD. Most of these parts don't turn when in 2WD. So, realistically, I have never experienced a 4WD taking a lot more time and money to maintain. To me, the advantage of 4WD far outweighs the few disadvantages.
I love my diesel- I can justify it all day long. But, it is foolish to say that they are reasonable to maintain, in comparison to a gas engine. Diesels are more expensive. And, today's gas engines are just as economical, if not more. You aren't going to tow, so you don't need a diesel for heavy duty work. I don't want to discourage you, but if cost is a big factor, you will find a newer, lower mileage truck, which will be cheaper to own and operate, by looking at gas engine trucks.
I am more than willing to pay more to keep and run my diesel. The operative phrase is willing to pay.

samboats

RSTL99,
I have been hearing people tell me to get a 4x4 for the last three diesel trucks I've bought. I'm still sticking with the 4x2 for the reasons you mentioned.
After saying that, I will also say that mine have all been standard cab models. If you get a longer cab, I'm thinking you might regret not also getting the 4x4 since the longer wheelbase is much easier to get stuck.

gorms

rstl99, in you're neck of the woods I'd say if you don't get a 4x4 get a winch (or good come-along) and a few good tow straps. A friend of mine had my exact truck, except 2wd, and spent a fair amount less on maintenance. Sure, same parts are there, but they aren't really the same when it comes to wear. At 200k miles now, I'm constantly under the truck looking for the next part to wear out, ball joints and tie rods seem to be the meal of preference. But I don't mind, as I primarily use the truck in the winter (plowing) and it is my only 4x4. I am on call for electrical service, so I have been thankful for 4WD at 2 a.m. when the plows aren't really out on the roads, but you don't seem to really need 4x4, in my opinion, from what I've read.

And as far as dual or single wheels, that Alaskan will be just fine on a single. If you don't want to ever think about traffic maneuvers, get a dual. If you have a brain, go a little easy on a single. Simple!

Junk Man

I used to drive 2x4s & would get stuck every year or so. Then I'd have to call my neighbor with his tractor to haul me out. My yard slopes & a little rain softens it just enough so that AT tires & the light rear end would just spin. I've never been stuck with the 4x4. Fortunately, none have gone out or required much $$ to repair. You'll get into situations camping where you wish you had it. Like a lot of things, better to have & not need than need & not have.

rstl99

Glad to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like a dually!
Amen to that, well said and you've laid that myth to rest for me: ie. 4x4's require significantly more upkeep.
Well, now you've thrown a real curve into my thinking (maybe it's a spit-ball )
I own two diesel vehicles (82 Benz sedan, and 92 Land Cruiser wagon) and appreciate them a lot (simple to maintain, reliable, slow and steady wins the day). Naturally, I transposed that into my pickup search, with the additional belief that a diesel could more easily carry a load AND get decent gas mileage (ie. 20mpg or so).

Now you've given me pause for reflection... Obviously, I've read about the claims of thrifty fuel consumption for new gas-engined pickups (better fuel injection, computer controls, etc.). I suppose I should give it some thought. I mean, in my mind I figured that with a camper on the back of a Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton automatic, I could still hope to get 18-20mpg on a good day, whereas with a big-block gas engine, I'd be lucky to get 10-12. On long trips, and at the price of fuel these days, that starts adding up. On the flip side, a gas truck can be had for much less money than an equivalent diesel truck (certainly in the Dodge world, based on the used prices I see).

Couple of thoughts/questions:
1. If I was going to go with gas, I'd probably opt for something other than a Dodge. Again, maybe this is a myth, but general hearsay I get is that the Dodge truck is not nearly as good as the other two, and the Cummins engine sort of makes up for it. And that a Ford/Chevy truck may be better built, from the truck perspective. Just as I thought my search was focusing in on something (2nd Gen Cummins), do I now open up the can and explore the other Big Two?

2. In a 3/4 ton gas pickup in the $10K range, can I really expect to get close to 20mpg carrying a 2,000 pound camper on the back?

3. If I do consider gas, what are some years and engines recommended (Dodge and otherwise)? If Toyota made a 3/4 ton pickup I'd lean that way, but as far as I know they're limited to 1/2 ton...

Hodge

Toyota is going to bring a 3/4 ton to the US (I have driven a 1 ton diesel in Haiti), but you probably can't even test drive it for $10,000.
I have owned all three makes. None of them were perfect, and all had quirks. Period. I had been a Ford guy up until I bought my Dodge. The Dodge itself has neither wowed me, or disappointed me- it is a solid truck. Not perfect, but solid, and at 187,000 miles, I trust it. So, I would say that any of the three would serve you well. But, Dodge has never been known for good fuel mileage in their gas trucks. A Ford of Chevy will probably do better. But, with your budget, you will probably not find a gas engine truck that gets the mileage that they do today. I think that you will get more like 16 or so with the camper on the truck, if you have a diesel. Gas? A little less, or a lot less, depending on what engine. But, if you can find a gas truck for considerably less, and you aren't driving the truck day in and day out, then you can buy an aweful lot of gas for what you saved. Tough choices, for sure.

It is funny how people dog on Dodges, like they are really inferior. By the nature of the beast, Chrsyler has to sell a comparable truck, or the public would'nt buy them. Plus, Many Ford and Chrevrolet's share some of the very same parts- Dana axles, transfercases, etc. When you get rid of brand loyalty, what your daddy drove, who your favorite NASCAR driver is, yada yada yada, they all shake out about the same.

Tate

Not sure where you got that from, seeing as you can get the same gears in both the SRW and DRW. As for weight, my dually weighs about the same or even a little less than my reg cab 4by.

To the OP, by what you describe, a 2wd will do you just fine. I daily drove my 2wd dually for three years. I got stuck 3 times with it. Once in soft mud in the middle of spring, once on wet grass (yea, I know), and once in 12" of snow. All times, I had no weight in the back. In winter, I always had about 1000 lbs. of steel, and I never got stuck with it. Tire selection will play a big role in it. I have the same brand/model of tires on my two trucks, only difference being they are 285's on the 4x4, and 235's on the dually. Neither are good in mud or wet grass. For actual price on tires, the six dually cost me $200 LESS than what I paid for four tires on my 4x4. Also, the tires on the back of the dually will last longer than on the fronts by a wide margin.

The only reason why I ended up buying my 4x4 is that you can never predict the late spring blizzards. Thats when I got stuck in the snow (I took my weight out a week before), and I came across a '98 12v. Had I still had my weight in the back of the dually that week, I would most likely still be driving my dually everyday.

Junk Man

RSTL,
The Ram is not anywhere close to reliable as an 81-85 Mercedes diesel. (I have an 85SD so have lived with it.)

All of the Rams have front end issues and the 24V has the VP to deal with. For hauling not much weight with reliability, a 3/4 ton gasser will be less expensive. I had a 93 F250 with a 351 Windsor that couldn't be killed. Current status is I'd trade my 00 for a comparable 12V in a heart beat.

rstl99

Thanks for that Gorms. I have a more-power puller (sort of a HD comealong) that I've never had to use for vehicle recovery, but which would probably go along for any trip, with a good strap.
http://www.wyeth-scott.com/

Thanks for the vote of confidence for SRW for the ALaskan. Indeed, simple is better, and I'm more of a slow-and-steady-wins-the-day kind of driver.

Looks like I could probably live with a 2x4 if it comes to that, but will primarily look for a 4x4 for various reasons expressed here. However if a pristine 2x4 12V comes up at a great price, I'll seriously consider it!

As someone once told me, if you have a 4x4, always go into a place you're not sure of using 2x4, and only use 4x4 if you HAVE to, to get out if you're stuck. Never go into a new place with 4x4 because if you get stuck then, you'll have a heck of time extirpating yourself. Makes sense. I also recall a story someone told me: when he was younger, he and his buddies used to explore remote mountain back roads in their 4x4's, and were surprised one day to come to the top of a particular remote and steep hilltop, only to find an old couple camped there in their truck and slide-in, and they only had 2x4. THe old man had said: it's not what you drive, but how you drive!