Vp 44 Died, even after Reloc. kit
07-16-2007, 10:30 AM
#16
Registered User
The 2 areas where the VP fails the most are in the electronics, and the diaphram and o-rings which seal the high pressure chamber form the low pressure chamber.
Heat and electrical spikes are the big killers of the fpcm, and that's why you'll see more failures in the summer time. Cummins and Bosch rate the electronics by "number of starts". All the new stuff going into the remans has a much higher "number of starts" rating than the original stockers had. There is even an upgrade since the famous "UPS" electornics upgrade. The new remans should last much longer in the electronics department.
Fuel pressure has something to do with diaphram and o-ring failures. The new diaphrams are much stronger than the originals. When these items fail a 0216 code is thrown. In my opinion, the same hydralic harmonics which take out lift pumps, also is getting the diaphrams and o-rings. Lack of fuel pressure, alone, doesn't explain why tough diaphrams crack out and o-rings look as if they had been beaten by a ballpeen hammer.
Cummins decision to the mount the lift pump on the engine block, and power it directly from the ecm, is flawed. Resolving this should help stop rapid fuel pressure fluctuations which fatigue the diaphrams, and stop electrical spikes which kill the fpcm.
I think all 24v owners should look at replacing the original VP after a 100 or 150 thousand miles as a matter of maintenance, and get the lift pump moved off the block, powered from another source separate form the ecm. The new remans are much better than the originals and will give much better service.
Heat and electrical spikes are the big killers of the fpcm, and that's why you'll see more failures in the summer time. Cummins and Bosch rate the electronics by "number of starts". All the new stuff going into the remans has a much higher "number of starts" rating than the original stockers had. There is even an upgrade since the famous "UPS" electornics upgrade. The new remans should last much longer in the electronics department.
Fuel pressure has something to do with diaphram and o-ring failures. The new diaphrams are much stronger than the originals. When these items fail a 0216 code is thrown. In my opinion, the same hydralic harmonics which take out lift pumps, also is getting the diaphrams and o-rings. Lack of fuel pressure, alone, doesn't explain why tough diaphrams crack out and o-rings look as if they had been beaten by a ballpeen hammer.
Cummins decision to the mount the lift pump on the engine block, and power it directly from the ecm, is flawed. Resolving this should help stop rapid fuel pressure fluctuations which fatigue the diaphrams, and stop electrical spikes which kill the fpcm.
I think all 24v owners should look at replacing the original VP after a 100 or 150 thousand miles as a matter of maintenance, and get the lift pump moved off the block, powered from another source separate form the ecm. The new remans are much better than the originals and will give much better service.
07-16-2007, 11:20 AM
#17
Registered User
That said, the remans are much better than the originals, certainly.
I put a reman VP on my 01 on June 29, 2007. On July 11 2007, it clapped out. Being fed a steady diet of triple filtered 17psi fuel, through high volume lines, and a liquid eye immediately before the pump, used to detect entrained air.
It was a bad board. It happens, life goes on. Downtime doesn't exactly tickle me though. The supplier of the rebuilt pump was good enough to ship one the same day that it died, so I only had a couple days downtime waiting for the pump. On a work truck, in the busy season, a couple days is actually a big deal. Once again, what do you do?
For the record, that pump made it 12 days and 861 KM before it went out. Oh well.
Good fuel pressure and flow are important, as is filtration for removal of air and other contaminants. After that, it is simply luck of the draw as to how long these pumps will last. I don't believe there is a magic solution to the problem at this point, simply maintain the system, and hope it doesn't fail at a bad time.
Good luck with it
I put a reman VP on my 01 on June 29, 2007. On July 11 2007, it clapped out. Being fed a steady diet of triple filtered 17psi fuel, through high volume lines, and a liquid eye immediately before the pump, used to detect entrained air.
It was a bad board. It happens, life goes on. Downtime doesn't exactly tickle me though. The supplier of the rebuilt pump was good enough to ship one the same day that it died, so I only had a couple days downtime waiting for the pump. On a work truck, in the busy season, a couple days is actually a big deal. Once again, what do you do?
For the record, that pump made it 12 days and 861 KM before it went out. Oh well.
Good fuel pressure and flow are important, as is filtration for removal of air and other contaminants. After that, it is simply luck of the draw as to how long these pumps will last. I don't believe there is a magic solution to the problem at this point, simply maintain the system, and hope it doesn't fail at a bad time.
Good luck with it
07-16-2007, 11:39 AM
#18
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That said, the remans are much better than the originals, certainly.
I put a reman VP on my 01 on June 29, 2007. On July 11 2007, it clapped out. Being fed a steady diet of triple filtered 17psi fuel, through high volume lines, and a liquid eye immediately before the pump, used to detect entrained air.
It was a bad board. It happens, life goes on. Downtime doesn't exactly tickle me though. The supplier of the rebuilt pump was good enough to ship one the same day that it died, so I only had a couple days downtime waiting for the pump. On a work truck, in the busy season, a couple days is actually a big deal. Once again, what do you do?
For the record, that pump made it 12 days and 861 KM before it went out. Oh well.
Good fuel pressure and flow are important, as is filtration for removal of air and other contaminants. After that, it is simply luck of the draw as to how long these pumps will last. I don't believe there is a magic solution to the problem at this point, simply maintain the system, and hope it doesn't fail at a bad time.
Good luck with it
I put a reman VP on my 01 on June 29, 2007. On July 11 2007, it clapped out. Being fed a steady diet of triple filtered 17psi fuel, through high volume lines, and a liquid eye immediately before the pump, used to detect entrained air.
It was a bad board. It happens, life goes on. Downtime doesn't exactly tickle me though. The supplier of the rebuilt pump was good enough to ship one the same day that it died, so I only had a couple days downtime waiting for the pump. On a work truck, in the busy season, a couple days is actually a big deal. Once again, what do you do?
For the record, that pump made it 12 days and 861 KM before it went out. Oh well.
Good fuel pressure and flow are important, as is filtration for removal of air and other contaminants. After that, it is simply luck of the draw as to how long these pumps will last. I don't believe there is a magic solution to the problem at this point, simply maintain the system, and hope it doesn't fail at a bad time.
Good luck with it
Makes you wonder why we bother with improved lift pumps, fuel pressure guages, big line kits etc. etc.
12 days ya say?
07-16-2007, 01:15 PM
#19
Registered User
Dave
07-16-2007, 09:09 PM
#20
Registered User
Yeah Evil, it was like the 12 days of Christmas, with a giant lump of coal at the end.
But hey, at least I am getting faster at changing them. No air tools, I should be able to do 3 - 4 of them in the book time for 1. This one was #25 in the past 4 years. Bad pump = good business??? not so much. I would rather be able to change a dirty filter, or something along those lines, in order to get someone going, not have to tell them that their pump just went to fossil fuel heaven.
If you want a truly painful situation, all I have to say is CAPS. that is the pump that was used on the 8.3, in the 98.5 - 2002 model years. You think the VP44 is junk? try the CAPS. proven unreliability. I did the 6th one on a truck here, just after new years. that truck is a 99 model T300 with 168,000 km on the clock, and 5400 hours when I did the job.
That works out to a pump every 900 hours and/or 28,000 km. Pretty good huh. Oh, and the sticker price was $4900, plus a $4500 core.
Yeah, we got it good.
But hey, at least I am getting faster at changing them. No air tools, I should be able to do 3 - 4 of them in the book time for 1. This one was #25 in the past 4 years. Bad pump = good business??? not so much. I would rather be able to change a dirty filter, or something along those lines, in order to get someone going, not have to tell them that their pump just went to fossil fuel heaven.
If you want a truly painful situation, all I have to say is CAPS. that is the pump that was used on the 8.3, in the 98.5 - 2002 model years. You think the VP44 is junk? try the CAPS. proven unreliability. I did the 6th one on a truck here, just after new years. that truck is a 99 model T300 with 168,000 km on the clock, and 5400 hours when I did the job.
That works out to a pump every 900 hours and/or 28,000 km. Pretty good huh. Oh, and the sticker price was $4900, plus a $4500 core.
Yeah, we got it good.
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