nickg

I called Midwest back in May 08, and to make a long story short, they sent me to Taber Diesel in Alberta, apparently they do alot of business with each other, Taber matched plus 100$ Midwest's internet price (Back when the Canadian Dollar was near Par). I went with Taber Diesel so I would not get taken by the UPS/Fedex exorbiant bend you over the barrel Customs fees! When I got my VP it had a Rebuilt in the USA sticker on it, I'm guessing it was a Midwest VP I got, so from May 08 til now(10 months) I've logged in excess of 80,000kms/50,000miles, or in excess of 1600hrs of run time. Maybe I got a good rebuild who knows, but even if it broke tomorrow, I'd say I got my moneys worth. If I had to buy again I'd go back to Taber/Midwest again.
Maybe having the Airdog, adding 2stroke to EVERY tank, and ensuring I never run below 1/4 has helped to keep the VP cool, who actually knows, as there are so many variables. I just tapped the pump in Nov and have been running levels 4 and 5 about 99% of the time, I could be tempting fate.
Maybe we should start a post with different rebuilders and how long their VP's lasted.

dieselfan

this is why i keep my tank close to full, rarely do i let it get pass 1/2 a tank.

i def. dont like reading this thread. im almost positive ill be doing a ppump if this one dies

RowJ

.... Sorry if this thread is distressing any members.
Obviously many have good luck with rebuilt VP-44's. Maybe my problem is not the norm.
I should have waited till I installed the Blue Chip and got a look at my present pump and had time to cool down.
Only 7500 miles on this pump had me upset!
Since my CTD did not die, I can't even be sure VP-44 is the only problem. I did swap injectors to be sure they were not the culprit.
On the other hand, 50% of the time my truck purrs like a well oiled gear motor.
But the problem is getting slowly worse so....I'm pretty sure.

Still the limited # of heat cycles in a VP-44 raises questions about luck of the draw on getting a good rebuilt pump, IMO.

RJ

dodgerdog

Reading this thread has me thinking about the two VP44's that have gone out on my 01 - the original at 76K and the replacement at 89K miles. The original was a slow dying scenario - would sputter, then come back to life and did this for about 30K miles. Would that scenario be the diaphrahm eventually failing? The replacement VP44 just died with no warning, no low fuel pressure warning - I came up to a stop sign one cold morning last November and just died. For the replacement VP44 scenario, would that be the electronics failure?
My truck is now on my 3rd VP44, and this time has a FASS, Vulcan 1/2" drawstraw and mechanical fuel pressure guage installed. However, if the scenario being that 90% of VP44's fail electronically - then the FASS wouldn't make any difference other than ensuring sufficiant fuel flow for cooling right?
It would seem to me that if the VP44's fail 90% of the time due to electronics, then why doesn't somebody manufacturer a better heat sink for the electronics to better dissipatate the heat being the culprit? DD

olddodgetrucks

maybe these trucks are catching gm 6.5 disease.pump drivers

John_P

-------------------------------------------
RJ:

I want to thank you for posting what you did on the VP-44's! From reading your thread/posts I learned some things I sure didn't know about them. Although my 2002 is GONE, it is still good information for all the Members, so thanks again from me on that.

bent valves

The VP44 electronics failure problem is partly due to the way component parts were soldered to the circuit boards. The use of a tin/lead solder was phased out and replaced with a tin/copper/gold alloy. This was done to eliminate the pollution problems with lead.

Today almost all electronic circuit boards use surface mount technology instead of the older through hole technology. Component parts are soldered directly to the copper wiring traces in place of having the component leads stuffed into a drilled hole and soldered on the underside of the board. The reliability of a surface mount connection was not much worse than through hole when using a solder made with tin/lead but is much less reliable with the lead removed. Problems showed up with cracks in the soldered connections causing intermittent or failed connections.

The FedX computer fix was a change in the solder technology to try and recover the reliability of the older tin/lead solder. Adding back lead would violate EPA and Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment ( WEEE ) and the Restriction on Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directives in Europe.

Today, even with the FedX computer board reliability is questionable. Both NASA and the DoD have been trying to come up with a fix by testing an array of solders by using temperature cycling and vibration. The old tin/lead still wins. This link shows some of the testing being performed.
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_fr...soldering.html
To put a number of about 2000 heat cycles on the life of a VP44 does not make a lot of sense unless you know what temperature extremes are and which computer board is used and how well the soldered connections were made. It is like predicting that a tire will last for 100,000 revolutions without knowing its load or inflation pressure.

Just my $0.02

duner

more like power cycles. or inrush cycles.

Nor_Cal_Angler

can someone pls explain what exactly defines a "heat cycle"

I fully understand that "heat" is a culpert to almost ALL electronic components. but what is its relationship to our vp-44's

is "2000" heat cycles mean, cool diesel not flowing over parts x,y,z can happen 2000 times then failure...

is 2000 heat cycles, a predictable number of tempature heat like ambient air temp surrounding the chip set...2000 times before failure...

maybe its 2000 times resistance bulds in the electronic chip set causing heat before it fails...

WHAT is considered a HEAT CYCLE...reguardless of how many times it may or may not happen.

thanks

NCA

RowJ

Excellent point.... and great info on solder developments!
Whatever the average number of heat cycles is, there is obviously a relatively short term limit. But, as in my case, 7500 miles??
Was also told more rebuilds get sent to southern locations than go to cooler climates, so the amount of heat in the cycle may make a difference also?

After R+R on my VP-44, I'm hanging on to the core for a bit and try to discover it's history through Industrial Injection (where I bgt it).

RJ

dieselfan

i glad you posted it Rowland. i just dont like reading it, cause i have one

how many mi8les do you put on your CTD annually? did you use 2 cycle oil? sorry if you answered these already.

last question, why dont you just p-pump it

bent valves

To try and answer Nor Cal Angler:

The problem with the number of temperature cycles of the VP44 is not with the individual electronic components but with the solder connections. Electronic components have been tested and hardened to provide reliability for years in applications for NASA where a satellite can experience the heat from the sun and the chill of the lack of sun with temperature changes of several hundred degrees C.

Ford has a specification for automotive electrical components and sensors to meet or exceed 10 years/150,000 miles in service. This specification is met by subjecting the electronics to temperature cycle extremes of -55* to +170*C. The number of failures must be less than 50 parts per million and Ford is pushing for 5 parts per million. I do not know if Bosch, when testing the VP44 had similar requirements, but one can hope.

RowJ

I use to average 35,000 miles a yr. Cut back when fuel went way up and haven't increased much...but probably will.
I average 8-10 starts a day (business).... another concern for # of heat cycles.

Tried 2-cycle oil but find (from smoothness at idle) that 3% Bio diesel works as well. And the study posted here says Bio is best for lubricity! I mix 5 gal B20 (1 gal pure Bio) into 30 gal diesel.

P-Pump, No interest at this time. Lot of work (25-30 hrs) and a step backwards to my mind!
Watched 'Bnold' P-Pump his 01. Bgt a used 12v engine w/ a 215 pump and after parting out everything... broke even or better. But he had the time and curiosity to do it... and he does not have my bad back!

RJ

dieselfan

i havent drove 35k in the last 3 years. i wish i had bio as option but it isnt available around here.

so why dont you p-pump it?

dieselfan

it'd be easier for you, since brian already did his. ya ll could probably get it done in half the time.

i was just curious