Updated Info on VP-44
03-20-2009, 11:45 AM
#31
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The VP44 electronics failure problem is partly due to the way component parts were soldered to the circuit boards. The use of a tin/lead solder was phased out and replaced with a tin/copper/gold alloy. This was done to eliminate the pollution problems with lead.
Today almost all electronic circuit boards use surface mount technology instead of the older through hole technology. Component parts are soldered directly to the copper wiring traces in place of having the component leads stuffed into a drilled hole and soldered on the underside of the board. The reliability of a surface mount connection was not much worse than through hole when using a solder made with tin/lead but is much less reliable with the lead removed. Problems showed up with cracks in the soldered connections causing intermittent or failed connections.
The FedX computer fix was a change in the solder technology to try and recover the reliability of the older tin/lead solder. Adding back lead would violate EPA and Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment ( WEEE ) and the Restriction on Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directives in Europe.
Today, even with the FedX computer board reliability is questionable. Both NASA and the DoD have been trying to come up with a fix by testing an array of solders by using temperature cycling and vibration. The old tin/lead still wins. This link shows some of the testing being performed.
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_fr...soldering.html
To put a number of about 2000 heat cycles on the life of a VP44 does not make a lot of sense unless you know what temperature extremes are and which computer board is used and how well the soldered connections were made. It is like predicting that a tire will last for 100,000 revolutions without knowing its load or inflation pressure.
Just my $0.02
Today almost all electronic circuit boards use surface mount technology instead of the older through hole technology. Component parts are soldered directly to the copper wiring traces in place of having the component leads stuffed into a drilled hole and soldered on the underside of the board. The reliability of a surface mount connection was not much worse than through hole when using a solder made with tin/lead but is much less reliable with the lead removed. Problems showed up with cracks in the soldered connections causing intermittent or failed connections.
The FedX computer fix was a change in the solder technology to try and recover the reliability of the older tin/lead solder. Adding back lead would violate EPA and Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment ( WEEE ) and the Restriction on Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directives in Europe.
Today, even with the FedX computer board reliability is questionable. Both NASA and the DoD have been trying to come up with a fix by testing an array of solders by using temperature cycling and vibration. The old tin/lead still wins. This link shows some of the testing being performed.
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_fr...soldering.html
To put a number of about 2000 heat cycles on the life of a VP44 does not make a lot of sense unless you know what temperature extremes are and which computer board is used and how well the soldered connections were made. It is like predicting that a tire will last for 100,000 revolutions without knowing its load or inflation pressure.
Just my $0.02
Great post Dave! Thanks for your input on that.
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John_P
03-20-2009, 04:10 PM
#33
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Have you ever wondered why VW doesnt suffer from the same problems with their bosch VP pumps. They probably have more heat cycles then the Dodge truck seeing as how they are a passenger car.
03-20-2009, 09:09 PM
#35
it took aftermarket makers 10-12 yrs to solve gm 6.5 pump drivers [electonic{ to solve there problem,the 6.5 was like the vp44 and could fail anytime without warning.maybe someone will fo the same for vp44,s
03-22-2009, 05:06 PM
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rob
03-23-2009, 11:31 AM
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Would it be practical to do a pre-emptive replacement of the timing sleeve & the computer on a vp44 that ISN'T acting up? How much would it cost in parts & labor?
03-23-2009, 03:29 PM
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Got a lot of ISB's in school buses and such that see the exact same issue....even heard of a internal memo @ Cintas's Repair facility concerning lift/injection pump failures. SO not just us Dodge boys (that are gluten's for punishment) that are having issues....wish i could say our pumps were an end all to VP issues (I have had 2 on my truck going on 3...1st fuel pressure related back in 04, the rest comp board (2nd) and IAT sensor (Current and 3rd))...but lack of fuel pressure is just one of the many ways for these things to die.....
03-23-2009, 09:33 PM
#41
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I honestly believe that fuel pressure has alot to do with it. Most guys will say no more than 15, no less than 10. I've been running 20+ for 60,000 miles & my vp is still going strong [knock on wood].
03-24-2009, 07:29 AM
#42
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RJ
03-24-2009, 08:21 PM
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I just replaced the VP44 on my truck two weeks ago. The truck had 66,000 miles on it and I had used a fuel additive from day one; either Amsoil Diesel Concentrate or Stanadyne. Apparently the electronics were ok, it was the housing that was worn out. Anyway, I bought my reman pump from M&D Distributors in Dallas and put it in myself. M&D is an authorized Bosch service facility and their pumps come with the following new components as well as all the Bosch updates: Pump Housing; PSG (the electronic control for the pump itself);Timing Piston; Head and Rotor; and Internal Supply Pump. In addition all bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. are replaced. Their remanufacturing facility is in Houston, TX. Their pump has a one year, unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much standard. There are two issues that will nullify the warranty, (1) no gas and (2) no water. I was told these were Bosch issues as well so that's probably industry standard.
Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but with the fuel system mods that I’ve made to the truck, fuel flow restrictions shouldn’t be an issue. I guess it will boil down to the quality of the remanufactured VP44.
Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but with the fuel system mods that I’ve made to the truck, fuel flow restrictions shouldn’t be an issue. I guess it will boil down to the quality of the remanufactured VP44.
03-24-2009, 08:39 PM
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I just replaced the VP44 on my truck two weeks ago. The truck had 66,000 miles on it and I had used a fuel additive from day one; either Amsoil Diesel Concentrate or Stanadyne. Apparently the electronics were ok, it was the housing that was worn out. Anyway, I bought my reman pump from M&D Distributors in Dallas and put it in myself. M&D is an authorized Bosch service facility and their pumps come with the following new components as well as all the Bosch updates: Pump Housing; PSG (the electronic control for the pump itself);Timing Piston; Head and Rotor; and Internal Supply Pump. In addition all bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. are replaced. Their remanufacturing facility is in Houston, TX. Their pump has a one year, unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much standard. There are two issues that will nullify the warranty, (1) no gas and (2) no water. I was told these were Bosch issues as well so that's probably industry standard.
Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but I have 3/8ths id fuel hose from the VP44 to the fuel tank. I also have a 3/8ths id Draw Straw. During that install, I removed both screens in the fuel tank module and installed an in-line fuel strainer before the LP. Hopefully there are no more restrictions to fuel flow; hence a longer lasting VP44, hopefully.
Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but I have 3/8ths id fuel hose from the VP44 to the fuel tank. I also have a 3/8ths id Draw Straw. During that install, I removed both screens in the fuel tank module and installed an in-line fuel strainer before the LP. Hopefully there are no more restrictions to fuel flow; hence a longer lasting VP44, hopefully.
03-27-2009, 12:28 PM
#45
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EB....you did good with your VP going to 62,000 miles. On my now sold 2002, my first one went out at 22,000 miles!
Like alot of the other Members, I also had an aftermarket fuel system, bigger lines etc.