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Anatomy of a lift pump...

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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 10:38 AM
  #31  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

It's worth pointing out for those unfamiliar with these pumps, fuel actually flows THRU these pump motors in normal operation whenever the pressure valve is open - and any metal or carbon particles wearing off the motor components eventually end up in the Cummins fuel filter!
<br><br>That is truly bizarre! So if the bypass is closed (hi flow situation) the diesel fuel in the motor cavity is presumably heated from the pump motor. What does diesel fuel do when it is overheated? Does it coke like motor oil?
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 10:49 AM
  #32  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Ok, so I've pretty much taken over this thread. It's all just thinking out loud.... <br><br>I suppose in a full flow situation, the load on the motor is minimal. The worst case is when there's little or no flow, and the bypass is open......<br><br>
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 12:19 PM
  #34  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

emjay: I assume that you'd need a certain amount of bypass to cool the pump- not necessarily too much. When I played with mine I had the ball lifted a tad and got some circulation (Noticeable by the temp of the fuel in the outlet and the temp of the pump)<br>I think it's much more of a hassle to tune a static bypass to cool the pump without sacrificing the performance of the pump. You could do so by drilling a small hole in the sleeve on the outlet side and index it to pointtowards the motor.<br> Then you'd need an external bypass valve... Just for simplicity I chose to buy a new pump. Also mine was not in the best shape (Vanes run in )<br><br>AlpineRAM
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 12:24 PM
  #35  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Regarding the relay -- my concern would not be the electrical cycling, but rather the buzzing of the mechanical components inside over the long term. No big deal, just my $0.02.
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 12:27 PM
  #36  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

AlpineRam,<br><br>Yeah, the flow of diesel necessary through the motor is the $64,000 question. I guess that's why most folks do as you did.
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 05:19 PM
  #37  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

The buzz of the mechanical parts is not too bad in the relay- maybe it depends on the firmware that's in the ECU but mine makes the 50% duty cycles with impulses of 0.15secs on and off. So this would be a very deep buzz.<br>On my LP the ball had been hammered straight through the valve and was rolling around in the inlet. Therefore I could press it against the seat with a bolt. <br>I don't have any good pics showing my findings, but have some pics of the old lp <br>here<br><br>AlpineRAM
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 05:26 PM
  #38  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Funny yall are talking about fuel issues, I just pulled the bypass valve off my pump to check it after being told by a Injection shop they replace alot of them. Pulled the valve and other than the ball and spring there was an additional bleed off hole. When I put pressure to the valve it would not hold pressure, not even 5lbs... So I plugged the small orfice and now the valve holds PSI to about 16 or so lbs. <br><br>Now yall have me wondering is that hole there to return some fuel at all times so there is a fresh fuel returning back to the pump for cooling purposes. And dont recall anyone mentioning this additional bleed off on the valve, maybey something new on the 2002's. Any feedback on if I should open the hole back up or not would be great<br><br>I also have a Carter pusher pump that I am working on the bypass and extra filtering part of it so I do not have it on the truck at this time. My reasons for the pusher pump being I am on my 3rd transfer pump @73k and see the next one coming out of my pocket. And also I am not fond of the low fuel pressure at WOT. But I still have the factory banjos and lines also. <br><br>Mabey for now I should re-direct my pump project to a fuel line/restriction project.....<br><br>Take Care,<br>FreightTrain Wayneo<br>
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 05:30 PM
  #39  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Freight Train: I think you are talking about the pressure relief valve on the injection pump and not the lift pump. ( I don't think you could pull out the valve from the LP.. Maybe you have some pics or look at the pics in my former post and correct me if I'm wrong with my assumption ...<br><br>AlpineRAM
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 05:34 PM
  #40  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Hmmm.... A bleed hole could do at least two things, allow some flow through the motor cavity when the bypass is closed, and maybe dampen sharp hydraulic spikes, possibly reducing the hammering of the check ball ???<br><br>All theory and conjecture, though.
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 06:04 PM
  #41  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Yes, I was refering to the bleed off valve on the injection pump
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 06:11 PM
  #42  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

You could have something there Emjay on the relieving the injection pulse pressure, But still I know when I installed my first fuel pressure gauge a couple of months ago I hooked it in at the fitting at the Injection pump itself and the needle on the gauge bounced so hard it slammed down against the needle stop and broke it in half ...I thought it was funny and I learned something....But if that hole was put there for that reason I am not so sure its working...<br><br>But yall do have me wondering now....Thinkin if I should go undu what I have done to the valve....
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 07:09 PM
  #44  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Do you suppose it's possible that the pulsing some report is NOT caused by the VP-44 - but rather from rapid open/close flutter of the ball valve in the lift pump, which would cause the same effect on a guage?
That makes sense. Sounds like TWO good reasons to 86 the stock lift pump!

And another thought... Knowing that diesel circulates through the lift pump motor and diesel fuel tends to have water in it..... Hmmm.... That must be why they put the motor brushes at the top
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Old Jul 18, 2003 | 09:40 PM
  #45  
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Re:Anatomy of a lift pump...

Do you suppose it's possible that the pulsing some report is NOT caused by the VP-44 - but rather from rapid open/close flutter of the ball valve in the lift pump, which would cause the same effect on a guage?
<br><br>Prob not, Because I ended up tapping in between the transfer pump and the fuel filter. So being closer to the pump I should have hammered another gauge if that was the case.<br><br>And a electric sender style gauge is what I now wish I would have purchased, but what the heck it does okay for now.<br><br>I was thinking later I might go with a pressure gauge after the pusher pump then another one after the transfer pump or the filter. You can never have enough gauges {Expecially when looking for problems}. <br><br>
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