1st Gen. Ram - All Topics Discussion for all Dodge Rams prior to 1994. This includes engine, drivetrain and non-drivetrain discussions. Anything prior to 1994 should go in here.

Talking about an AFC delete!! (pics)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 12, 2010 | 11:21 AM
  #31  
Rick 12v CTD's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,591
Likes: 11
From: Thunder Bay
the only sad thing about this thing is there is no way to mount a TPS. I like the idea though. It's like removing the afc lever but gives easier access to the idle screw and the bolts that hold the pump top on. And yes, you probably could advance closer to the head, which would be nice for some of us too.
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2010 | 12:19 PM
  #32  
92smokin blacky's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 0
From: Bountiful, Utah
Originally Posted by Rick 12v CTD
the only sad thing about this thing is there is no way to mount a TPS. I like the idea though. It's like removing the afc lever but gives easier access to the idle screw and the bolts that hold the pump top on. And yes, you probably could advance closer to the head, which would be nice for some of us too.
Thats why ya go with a POT controller, I think they're better anyways
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2010 | 01:59 PM
  #33  
Rick 12v CTD's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,591
Likes: 11
From: Thunder Bay
Originally Posted by 92smokin blacky
Thats why ya go with a POT controller, I think they're better anyways
I knew someone was going to say that lol. I probably will when my TPS quits on me but until then I'm going to continue to use it.
Reply
Old Apr 12, 2010 | 04:09 PM
  #34  
DennyT's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
From: Waco, Texas
yeah Ive already been asked about the tps.......I drew up a contoured pc of sheetmetal that had slotted holes.....so that the tps could be moved depending on a persons timing. The plate mounts on the intake plenum using the available bolt holes BUUUUT it would be SOOOOO much easier to call DNR up and get the POT fix........plus I hate sheetmetal and having to draw in PROe
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2010 | 02:57 PM
  #35  
unixcowboy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Central Mi
Next thing we need from you Denny is a CNC'd IP to go UNDER that shiny top

You know - with enlarged fuel passages, snap ringed front seal, 1/2" fuel inlet - to match the 1/2" fuel line, etc,etc,etc

THAT would be worth spending mucho $$$
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2010 | 04:33 PM
  #36  
DennyT's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
From: Waco, Texas
Next thing we need from you Denny is a CNC'd IP to go UNDER that shiny top
Funny you should mention that.................
Reply
Old Apr 13, 2010 | 06:22 PM
  #37  
JBradley500's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 1
From: A 5th dimension, beyond that which is known to man.
ill be a guinea pig!!! pick me, pick me!
Reply
Old Apr 14, 2010 | 09:40 AM
  #38  
apwatson50's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,867
Likes: 0
From: Golden, Colorado
Originally Posted by unixcowboy
Next thing we need from you Denny is a CNC'd IP to go UNDER that shiny top

You know - with enlarged fuel passages, snap ringed front seal, 1/2" fuel inlet - to match the 1/2" fuel line, etc,etc,etc

THAT would be worth spending mucho $$$
Also needed is a bigger vein pump.
Reply
Old Apr 14, 2010 | 12:23 PM
  #39  
unixcowboy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Central Mi
Originally Posted by apwatson50
Also needed is a bigger vein pump.
NO - -
My understanding is the vane pump is just another lift pump built into the IP. I 'read' - trust this if you dare - that some AG units didn't even have lift pumps, they depended only on the internal vane pump.
SOooooo -- if you put in FASS or AirDog set at ~ 30psi you don't need the vane pump - it'll just get in the way of the fuel flow.
Reply
Old Apr 14, 2010 | 04:02 PM
  #40  
apwatson50's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,867
Likes: 0
From: Golden, Colorado
Originally Posted by unixcowboy
NO - -
My understanding is the vane pump is just another lift pump built into the IP. I 'read' - trust this if you dare - that some AG units didn't even have lift pumps, they depended only on the internal vane pump.
SOooooo -- if you put in FASS or AirDog set at ~ 30psi you don't need the vane pump - it'll just get in the way of the fuel flow.
You won't get any dynamic advance if the case pressure only stays at 30psi, sooooo......vane pump needed.
Reply
Old Apr 14, 2010 | 09:46 PM
  #41  
DennyT's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
From: Waco, Texas
taking notes...............
Reply
Old Apr 15, 2010 | 12:11 PM
  #42  
unixcowboy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Central Mi
Originally Posted by apwatson50
You won't get any dynamic advance if the case pressure only stays at 30psi, sooooo......vane pump needed.
Well, I'm connecting an electric that will push 60psi ...That should give some advance.
Wonder if a CNC'd pump could hold that pressure ?
Reply
Old Apr 15, 2010 | 12:46 PM
  #43  
pwrtripls1's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 0
From: Katy, TX off north Mason Road.
Originally Posted by unixcowboy
Well, I'm connecting an electric that will push 60psi ...That should give some advance.
Wonder if a CNC'd pump could hold that pressure ?
It could if the front seal had a snap ring to secure it in place. Then be sure all the other o-rings and seals are to tight tollerances. After that you could easily use a high pressure fuel pump like used on turbo LS motors. (i have a few in the garage). With that you can use a regulator set to about 25psi at idle, and run an FMU (fuel management unit) that increases fuel pressure acording to boost reference, very simular to the way the stock AFC does it. I have a Kenny Bell 10:1 FMU I've been thinking about. It'll raise fuel pressure 10lbs for every 1 pound boost. But you can change out the springs and make it most any ratio down to 1:1. IMO the ideal would be about 5:1. So at idle you have 25psi fuel case pressure. At 50psi you have 200psi fuel case pressure. If one of these pumps became available I think I could make it work really well.
Reply
Old Apr 15, 2010 | 01:30 PM
  #44  
apwatson50's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,867
Likes: 0
From: Golden, Colorado
At a certain pressure the shaft seal will start leaking around the shaft, even when held in with a snap ring.

So you really need the vane pump, as it provides a pressure drop from case pressure to the pressure the shaft seal "sees".

What you would want to do is monitor case pressure on a stock pump with near stock injectors, and then size the vane pump so that it can keep in up in volume(pressure) with a bigger piston and bigger injectors. I believe case pressure changes more in relation to rpm than with load. That is until the piston/injectors are pulling more fuel than the vane pump can supply and case pressure drops and timing is retarded.
Reply
Old Apr 15, 2010 | 03:35 PM
  #45  
pwrtripls1's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 0
From: Katy, TX off north Mason Road.
Originally Posted by apwatson50
At a certain pressure the shaft seal will start leaking around the shaft, even when held in with a snap ring.

So you really need the vane pump, as it provides a pressure drop from case pressure to the pressure the shaft seal "sees".

What you would want to do is monitor case pressure on a stock pump with near stock injectors, and then size the vane pump so that it can keep in up in volume(pressure) with a bigger piston and bigger injectors. I believe case pressure changes more in relation to rpm than with load. That is until the piston/injectors are pulling more fuel than the vane pump can supply and case pressure drops and timing is retarded.
So is that part of the reason some VE guys run very high base timing, because they are not getting the dynamic advance due to case pressure not able to increase the way it was designed? Sorry for all the questions, its the engineering side of me thats got to understand how and why things work.
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 PM.