Just got a call from the shop that's installing my new VE pump. They got it on the truck and it wouldn't crank. Turns out the timing on the new pump was set around 40 degrees away from what it should be. If I heard the shop owner correctly, the keyway is at around 10 o'clock, and the pump was set around 2 o'clock. The pump was built to my specs with a week lead time from the date if order. As far as I'm concerned, it should be timed for the engine on which it is going. Is this normally the case for a new pump?

I'm being told that the pump will now have to be sent to a pump shop to be timed correctly.

Also the sales rep I spoke with about the situation said she thought the new VE pumps were all set at zero degrees from the factory, but she sounded rather clueless. Said she would call their pump shop and find out how they ship them.

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on how this situation should have gone differently? What is standard operating procedure for a new VE purchase/installation?

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Wouldn't crank? Do you mean it wasn't pushing fuel?

If the key didnt line up, just turn engine over by hand till it lines up and slide it on.

As far as procedure goes...I believe the engine should have been at TDC and the pump should have been locked in that position from the pump shop for ease of installation.

 

I'm assuming the pump wasn't pushing fuel, but don't know for sure. It does seem that the no start issue is directly related to a timing discrepancy. The shop did get the pump on to try to start the truck which is (I'm assuming) how they figured out the timing was wrong. I would guess that they turned the motor over by hand to get the keyway lined up with the pump.

After contacting the technician who built the pump, he was aware of the condition when the pump was sent out (something about a replaced housing, maybe) but assumed it would be corrected in the field. I was less than impressed with that answer. My local shop quoted me $255 to correct the keyway, plus a $120 tow to get my now immobilized truck (which was previously driveable) and pump from one shop to another because the current shop apparently does not have the capability to alter the keyway position. I am waiting on a callback from the pump shop on the possibility of me shipping the pump back to the shop that built it for them to correct the keyway position. It is a frustrating situation to say the least, and the primary reason I prefer to deal locally when possible.

Also, to avoid any confusion, this is NOT the Haisley Machine pump in my sig. It is a stock reman. going on a bone stock truck. Pump was purchased from a very large online diesel performance who shall remain nameless until the situation is resolved.

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If the key is lined up it would be timed correctly, theres no other option unless the cam plate is flipped and that wouldn't keep it from pumping fuel. The timing would just be 180* out.

If was indeed not pumping any fuel...its not timing related at all.

 

Like Jayers said, assuming the cam plate is installed correctly in relation to the key on the drive shaft then there is no timing issue with the pump.

I think your first shop doesn't know how to install a VE pump.

All they need to do is turn the pump input shaft so the key way lines up with the gear key. Or turn the engine so it lines up with where the pump key is. Only thing with turning the engine is getting the drive gear misaligned with the cam gear.

 

This shop has built some of the baddest Cummins trucks in the country, and has been featured in (and on the cover of) magazines like Diesel Power and Diesel World many times. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am getting nervous about it. After all, none of those magazine trucks or record holders have been 1st gen trucks...they mostly build CR Cummins.

With a Cummins track record like they have, you would think they could build anything from a 4BT to an N14 but I'm starting to wonder.

If they did indeed get the pump in the motor and try to turn it over, that must mean that they turned the motor over by hand to get the keyway lined up, right? Otherwise the pump couldn't have even fit onto the motor, correct? I'm starting to wonder if it may be like you guys say, and just not pumping fuel. Then the shop is attributing the issue to a timing problem when, in reality, there is no timing problem at all.


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As the others have said, there is no special timing required for installing a VE pump. If the motor was set to TDC before the old pump was removed, then all they need to do is turn the new pump to line up with the key way on the gear and install. This will get things good enough to run, then you can fine tune your timing from there.

If the injectors were not getting any fuel then there might be another issue. Hope they primed your new pump before they started cranking it. If not then you probably had a lot of dry surfaces rubbing on each other until it filled up with enough fuel.

My guess is they are used to P.Pump set-ups, and having an electric pump prime the system. Probably having to prime the system manually is just something they have not come across.

 

a lot of the big shops now know nothing of the ol mechanical (must be timed right) VE pumps and only care about vp, p, and cp3 pumps. I've seemed to notice that a lot. Like the others said, if the pump gear lines up with the key in any position than it should be right on. My buddy's truck had a timing issue like this and it would at least try to run or fire even with the timing off. So it should at least sputter, sound horrible, smoke like crazy, or act like it wants to run with the timing way off. Bleed the injectors and see how much pressure is coming out of them.

I would go to the shop myself and watch them crank it over and see whats going on with it if it were me. All of you guys are pretty trusting, I couldn't take my truck anywhere to be worked on.

 

Thanks for all the replies guys. Some good info here. I would like nothing more than to have done it myself, but I'm a Project Manager for a large commercial construction company which means I don't get to see my house very often, let alone have time to work on my trucks.

So the underlying problem here seems to be that the pump is not moving fuel, huh? If you install it in any position at all it should at least crank (and run bad) right?

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Well within a couple teeth it will run and run bad. If it's not getting fuel to the injectors then there is another problem. All they needed to do was turn the pump shaft or turn the engine over. I never put a pump in the "right" way. The key way can fall into the case, I always do them at 12, which is not TDC. Sound like a case of them not knowing the 12 valve. Wonder If they took the lock off before cranking the engine?
good Luck bud

 

Just spoke to the shop owner and asked him some questions the pump manufacturer gave me for his records. Old pump was pulled at TDC for cylinder 1. New pump was unlocked, engine was rotated over to match key on pump. Pump was manually primed properly. Pump is flowing fuel to the lines, but truck won't start. Tech stated the pump timing was around 70* away from what it should be. Said it sputtered but wouldn't start. The pump manufacturer, upon hearing this, immediately said send it back and we will fix it.

Any thoughts on what the issue may be? Could it be the timing? 70* sounds like a lot to be off.

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the only way to be 70deg off is if when the turned the engine over to match the pump the pump gear skipped some teeth.

 

It sounded to me like the manufacturer shipped the pump preset and locked 70 degrees away from what it should be. Could that be it? Or did I misunderstand him?

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that could be but all you have to do is unlock it grab the input shaft and turn it 70 deg!

 

Some one tell me it I am correct in my thinking. The pump can only go in the gear one way so either the pump is timed right or it could be 180 degrees out also. I would pull the front cover and see it the timing marks are lined up and if they are lined up then turn the pump shaft 180 and try it again. Is my thinking right?