So far I've upgraded all my fuel lines to 1/2inch. I bypassed the factory filter head and bought one that goes with P558000 Donaldson fuel filter and it is larger then 1/2 inch so i put in a reducer. I also have a 1/2 reducer at the inlet of the injection pump and reducers at the inlet and outlet of the piston lift pump im using. I still need to put in a 1/2 inch pickup tube in the fuel tank as well.

I think im glad I didn't waste my money on the cummins lift pump cause im probably gonna get a electric pump that has atleast an 1/2 inlet and outlet to finished off my fuel system

 

I think that the walboro pump that the 2nd and 3rd gen guys are starting to use would be a great pump to use for lots of fuel.

 

1/2 inch? I'm custom designing a fuel system at the moment for my veggie oil setup, and I've never thought of going bigger than 3/8 inch. But if it would be a good thing to do, now would be the time for me to do it since it wouldn't cost much extra. You super-high-end horsepower guys are really being starved with the stock lines? (Figures since I managed to scrounge 60 feet of stainless 3/8 line...)

I also didn't realize that anybody had outgrown the piston lift pump. Are these Walboro pumps electric? I would think that the piston pump, being mechanical, would have quite an inheirent advantage, but I guess there's quite a bit of fuel flowing to reach ~600 horsepower...

Interesting...

 

the walboro is actually a fuel injection electric pump, but you run a return/regulator before the pump and it'll flow like 80gpm at 60psi. So it should be plenty of fuel. The vp guys are counting on excess flow through their pumps to keep them cool so they last.

 

80 GPM at 60 PSI sounds rather extreme... Anybody know what a piston lift pump puts out?

Would it be possible to change the mechanicals inside the engine block to make it put out more?

 

I think the time is fast approaching to look closely at the VE's internal supply pump. The fuel starvation problem with the VE is twofold: First, like the VP, we also need the fuel to cool (to a certain extent) and lube the pump internals. Under normal-ish circumstances, the vane pump in the VE does a fine job---good enough to even draw its own fuel and keep the pump alive with a failed lift pump! Second, the VE also relies on that vane pump to keep internal pressure at an appropriate level in order to bring the dynamic timing in and out, relative to RPM. This is achieved through the spool valve/overflow valve working in combination with the fuel supplied by the vane pump. The problem with hitting the vane pump with silly input pressures from p-pump lift pumps etc, is that you run the risk of blowing the seal that faces the pump gear, thus blowing fuel down into the crank case. Somebody (forgive me for forgetting who) removed the overflow restriction (return banjo) and added an adjustable restriction and was still able to pull internal pump pressure down to 40psi, which is low enough to negate the dynamic timing alltogether...this is obviously not good for burning a lot of fuel on the top end. Ideally, you could plug off the vane pump side of the VE completely and plumb a line right into the pump top and have a Walbro/regulator setup like that. Since the pump case can hold over 150psi, and the vane pump would be sealed from this pressure, you could set the regulator at whatever you need. Now the only problem is, that regulator needs to be dynamic and change with RPM so you don't have 28* of timing at 1200rpm, but that you DO have it at 2800 rpm. Ok, now GET TO IT!

 

I think the answer to the problem is a Walbro-type pump with a bypass regulator that is boost sensitive. I know Holley makes regulators like that, I'm sure other companies do, too.

If it was set up on the outlet of the pump, with the vane pump plugged from the inside as you suggest, that could work very well for a dyno/race/pulling truck. It would not be so good for a daily driver, because you'd be stuck with base timing unless you were making boost.

Another possibility would be an auxilliary high pressure feed pump, set for say 100 psi, plumbed directly into the pump case and triggered by a hobbs switch at 20 psi boost. This would prevent case pressure from dropping when the truck is under boost.

 

I'd like to see an rpm dependent control, since the timing is more directly linked to rpm than boost, though I do see where you're going with that. You know those fuel pumps that run of the crank via a little cogged belt? It would be cool to control a regulator via something like that--you know, to keep it all mechanical, hehe, but even using, say, a tach signal to control a variable regulator could likely get the job done.

 

I don't think it's critical when we get the extra timing, so long as we have it at high RPM. I think trucks would dyno better with full advance from the start of the pull instead of the factory RPM dependent curve.

 

I have seen that type of pump on the alcohol inj cars that us a pill to change the fuel (alcohol)rate of flow.
I think that this belt drive pump would work,but probably would need some changes to it.......I wish i could remember the name of the system.

 

The mechanical pump your refering to that is driven by a belt is an Enderle or a Hilborn type of pump.

most blown applications drive them off the camshafts through a special front cover, such as ourselves, but we picked ours up used off ebay and it came with the drive belt type system, which knocks it down to 1/2 engine speed so at say 8000rpm the pump is running 4000rpm which is where they're flowed at.

I do beleive the R.A.S.P. uses the same type of pump, but might alter the drive ratio to work better with the lower rpm range of the CTD but I'm not sure of that.

Enderle does have a different selection of pumps to use (as does Hilborn) from blown gas, to top fuel nitro burners.

 

You guys sure know more than me. I wish KTA would post in here. I had a long conversation with him about all this.

 

Yes Yes thats it Hilborn and the one i sean was drivin of the crank.

 

The biggest restriction is the tiny 1/8 fuel pickup tube in the tank.. its crazy small... I built a 1/2 pickup tube for NeedMoPowers truck when he added the FASSII pump.. I think he's running 20-22psi... the return banjo does have a pin hole orfice in it.. I know some have drilled this out to allow more fuel to pass through the pump...
Bryan

 

Hmmm, sort of like running two fuel supply systems. How about this, (thinkin outloud here), keep the stock feed to the vane pump on the VE for timing purposes but run a parallel feed on the other side of the vane pump for fuel supply. A crude analogy would be sort of like setting up an electrical relay with a control (low current) and a feed (high current) leg....Could it be done?? Is there a way to "separate" the internals of the VE?? I`m no way familiar enough with the internals to say, but it`s a thought.