I rebuild the getrag I have on My truck now, it works just fine except I still have to play to get it in 1st some times but I only replaced the rings and bearings maybe the hole syncross needed to go too.

Anyway, I do pull heavy at times and most times the truck is well loaded and I don't see many of You guys pulling heavy loads all the time with a getrag except for BH so I been wondering if I should switch to a medium duty (a little overkill) or a nv4500.

Now I know the problem on the nv4500 is that nut coming off but nothing else goes on with that one besides that, I know someone that shifts that tranny for years and has no mercy for it yet the tranny works perfect. I'm not sure I can get a getrag that life and keep it.

I do like the fact I can rebuild the the rag fast, anyone ever rebuild a nv4500? How does it compare? Need any special tools?

I will buy a new clutch and pressure plate some time soon and I have to decide if it is a clutch for a getrag or a nv4500. Also for those that have done the swap how much does this project cost in average.

Thank You.

 

here's some info on the getrag- i guess this person worked for chrysler building getrags? but if i know who he was i would have him go through me rag if ever she went on me

hope this helps (its a quote from another forum)

mysteryman wrote:

The bearing that fails is the rear main shaft bearing.....This happens due to some of the things I mentioned earlier in this thread....

What you have is a Timkin tapered roller bearing pressed onto the main shaft.....the race is then placed into the rear of the case partially sticking out. Then the tail shaft housing goes over the part of the race that sticks out pressing it down onto the cone....There are shims that go between the race and the tail shaft housing that adjust the bearing clearance..

The failure comes when the clearance is too tight (TOO MANY SHIMS)
This loads the bearing too tight.....When the trans heats up things expand...
This causes the race in the case to lock on the cone and rotate in the case...
This wears out the case and causes the trans to get real hot real fast...Then often times the case will crack between the main shaft and the countershaft bearing bores..... Party over !!!

The bearings in the Getrag are Timken tapered roller bearings just like the front wheel bearings. On front wheel bearings you adjust the clearance with the spindle nut....On a Getrag you stack thin shims.....For new bearings you want a +.006 preload . For used bearings you want .000 clearance.....

Back in the early 90's we were having problems with the remans getrag was sending us...I had about 20 or so that we tore down to find out what had happened...I found that all of them had +.030 to +.045 shim packs.....I thought that I was not calculating it correctly or that the failed units were too bad off to be accurate...
I went to the getrag reman plant way back when to get to the bottom of what the problem was..... I pulled 3 off of the line and tore them down to check the clearance....They all had +.030 to +.045 shim packs in them as well..... Oh sh** ! I called for the production manager ....We discussed my findings...He said that they set them up this way intentionally because they felt .006 was too lose and caused excess gear rattle during testing...OMG !!!

I promptly told him that he was to stick to the spec that WE told them to use and that I was going to write my report to my superiors that Getrag was the cause of the failures and should be back charged for the failures of the remans that Chrysler had had to eat in the previous 3 years!

For those of you that have had one of the Getrags apart . You may have noticed the the rear main shaft bearing race was excessively thick....
The reason for this was that when we were testing the very first Getrags we found that under excessive load that the standard race would split and crack the case...So we reduced the size of the cone and had Timkin make a special thick walled race....It worked and hence the reason for the strange heavy race...
The best thing to do is rebuild the Getrag PROPERLY and put it back in....
There is nothing wrong with the Getrag if you know how to build them !
I have written quite a bit on this subject in the past...Look up the posts...

I know that many think that the NV4500 is a better trans....But we did have the 4500 several years BEFORE the Getrags were used...The 4500 was only used for gas trucks originally....We used the Getrag because it was found to be a better trans during testing.....The 4500 was later used behind the diesels...It had a few small changes made to it before it was used in the diesels but that was it....
The 4500 replaced the Getrag for only one reason...cost !

Rebuilding the Getrag is not hard you just have to pay attention to details...
The Getrag's problems were few but vital... The things that made them fail were as follows...
1) OIL LEAKS
A) drain plug dripped , run out or run low on oil
B) No gaskets on early models , more leaks
C) pilot bushing failures,,, bronze was too soft
D) over loading , trailer too heavy
E) too much hp , turning up the fuel/air
F) overheating ruining the oil
G) wrong type of oil , no 90 weight in the Getrag ! !
H) not knowing how to shift , rattling the gears,, too high a gear at too low a speed

2) Poor assembly
A) setting shim packs too tight , Getrag even did this themselves at times
B) uneven shim packs between main shaft and countershaft causing tail shaft housing not to hit squarely
C) bell housing misalignment

In conclusion, I personally have never had a Getrag fail in any of my personal trucks nor have I ever had to rebuild one twice that I built,, I have seen them go hundreds of thousands of miles in fleet trucks without failures.....

If you still decide to replace it with some thing else I would be glad to buy whats left of your Getrag.. I could use the spare parts ...

Good luck and be sure to replace the pilot bushing. Preferably with a ball bearing... The flywheel will need to be bored out for this...I do my own but the guys at South Bend clutch do them all the time for people.....

As for the pilot bushing....Engineering knew it was not going to work before the first one left the plant...But if you did not haul trailers it would work long enough to get out of warrantee....Engineering wanted to use a ball bearing but . We were shot down due to cost ...
In 94 it was decided to go to a Torrington needle bearing...Great in theory but it just made matters worse....They ate the imputs alive....

As for the worn out ends on the imput shafts...What I do is put them in my cylinder grinder and make them round and back on center..Then I make a steel sleeve on the lathe and press it onto the shaft end.... Then I put them in my cylinder grinder again and finish them to the correct diameter for the ball bearing I am going to use ...The tolerance is .0001 ot centerline . And no your Craftsman engine lathe you got from dad is NOT going to do the job accurately enough !

Getrag G360 Gear Ratios
1st.........................................5.53:1
2nd........................................3.04:1
3rd.........................................1:67:1
4th.........................................1.00:1
5th............................................77: 1
Reverse..................................5.61:1

 

Personally, if I were going to be towing heavy a lot, I would go with the NV4500, simply because they can take more abuse than the 'Rag. The Getrag seems like it is very particular with how it is treated, whereas the NV4500 will take a beating and keep going. With the 5th gear fix, you don't have to worry about the NV4500 at all, except for regular maintenance. My brother has an NV4500 in his pulling truck (technically Matt Williams owns it, but Patrick built it...) and it stands up to 1200+hp quite a bit, and has never had a problem. The same can't be said for all the Dana 80's we've been through.

That being said, I'm sure the 'Rag would take what you could throw at it, and be fine, but you would have to be more careful about how you drove and treated it. I know a lot of guys who swap from the 'Rag to the Nv4500, love the way their new tranny feels. I'd PM someone who has done it, and see if they like it, or drive a truck with an NV4500 and a load, and see if you like it.

 

Clutch will work with both trannys.

 

Deciding which is better, G360 or NV4500 is about like debating which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I see a lot more working trucks up on the hoist with NV4500 transmission and clutch trouble than I see Getrags having problems.

Not only do I see a lot of the fifth-gear nut problems, but a lot of general transmission failures.

And it appears that the 2nd Gen.s really eat the clutches for whatever reason; I have seen the same old trucks having the clutch out twice a year, whereas the old Getrag clutches just keep going and going.

Like the guy above said, Getrag made a bunch of mistakes and Chrysler put them in trucks; but, I believe by now all the duds are long dead and those Getrags that are left are good for the long haul.


Myself, I prefer and have complete confidence in my Getrag.



However, if I were going to swap types of transmission, I wouldn't consider any of the pick-up-sized units, but would be looking at either a 9-over or either a Clark or Spicer 5, 6, or 7-speed.


If not that, then maybe either of the bullet-proof GM 4-speeds, of which I have both laying handy, and add my 4-speed auxilliary behind for the overdrive.


I also have a lot of respect for the T-19 4-speed that used to be in my Ford, except for the much-too-high 1st-gear; but, then again, the 4-speed auxilliary would alleviate the shortcomings.

 

ill tell you one thing, a getrag will teach you respect and how to drive an old 5speed tranny, if you dont, it will go, period, in my personal opinion their is nothing wrong with the gears and syncros, the countershaft timkin bearings are way to small and they will not hold the power, i just blew mine up again and its the same thing, countershaft bearings are shot, and its always set to spec when its been rebuilt, im realy happy with the gear splits and the way it shifts, it just phisicaly needs bigger stuff put in it, yeh you can over fill them, but that just makes the pocket bearing last longer, my last one lasted 65000 miles of pure hammertime every day, day in and day out, their not all that bad of a tranny

 

I rarley pull a trailer but approching 500,000 miles and weighing in around 8,000 pounds Ive only put two clutches in my truck in 18 years.

 

Are You saying I can just put a nv4500 and leave all the same? How about the flywheel cover and flywheel itself?


Btw thank You for that old post, I spend months reading this forum even before I joined it and that is one of the first threads I read.

 

my friend bought his 1990 d350 dually reg. cab with the "rag" brand new...over 400,000 miles on the original clutch!

 

Ya. I am running on a fried Con O for a nv4500. Actually look at Southbend clutches, they are for 89-03. If you get a 13", they come with the flywheel and it will work, as well as yours working with the 12", as I understand it. I am gonna get a dual disk next round, and with those you have to tell them for a getrag, cause for the nv4500 they are made for an upgraded 1 3/8" input shaft.

Disclaimer: This is the way I have understood it after my research and may be subject to correction.

 

DD can be ordered for 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 input shaft. The 1 3/8's is recomended because the 1 1/4 has been known to snap.

 

i sure hope it doesn't happen thou

 

I'm using the search engine so I don't ask questions twice but I can't find any with a parts list. Is this in the sticky by chance?

Thank You.

Btw, I read someone didn't get a complete nv4500 and put it in the 1st gen but used an adapter and attached the tranny to this one keeping everything else. Where can I get this adapter? What parts can I re-use?

 

I'm brand new to this forum, just registered Sunday when a search engine found this thread. It's good to hear something good about the Getrag.

My Getrag needed a "factory rebuild" at 49,000 miles under warranty and now it is out of the truck for rebuilding by myself at 121,000. This time I found that the lower front tapered roller bearing on the countershaft had gone bad. The trans. made the exact same noise as the last one that failed so I am assuming it was the same thing both times.

I'm an engineer and looking at the Getrag I don't see anything grossly wrong. Bigger bearings would be nice, but I have to trust that someone sized them when they built it and probably knew what they were doing.

I tow 8,000 lbs. in 5th gear. It's almost all I use the truck for. I know everybody says not to tow in 5th but the engine would be screaming in 4th.

Other than putting extra oil in the Rag, is there anything I should do to help it live longer? I'm following the factory service manual word for word on the rebuild.

BTW: I can't find TIMKEN bearings in the right size (30305J). I called Timken and the guy said they stopped making that size. Koyo is what was put in it last time under warranty. Suggestions for brands?

 

F A G (German, good quality) also makes a pocket bearing that fits.

The extra oil really helps, and run a good synthetic 5W-30 like Mobil1.

A trans temp gauge to let you know when things are getting really hot would be a good idea. Then you will know when it's better to let the trans cool by dropping back to 4th.

A 3200 RPM spring will let you keep up with traffic in 4th.