Some of you may remember where I posted this thread https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=109142 about where to mount my two Water/Methanol injection nozzles.

OK fine, fast forward . . . .

I can't add enough W/M to "Bog" the engine at WOT.

I initially ran two of the 18gph nozzles from CoolerMist as I was working with their kit. That kit supposedly runs the same basic pump as the Snow Performance kit (150psig. Note, that pump from CoolerMist is custom built by ShurFlo so as to be compatible with W/M).
As such I've got it's pressure switch set to full on which supposidly allows pressures on up to 160 or so psig.

Can't bog the engine at WOT.

There's VERY different math being used by the two companies when it comes to their respective nozzles. Specifically the flow rates.

So, many folks are running the Snow Performance system using two of the largest nozzles Snow has to offer; the 625.


OK, Fine, . . .

So I just replaced the two CoolerMist 18gph nozzles with two of the 625 nozzles from Snow. While the two brands strive for the same goals of fine atomization/volume, the nozzles are similar in liquid flow with similar components though it's clear folks are coming from different angles and such.
The bottom line for me seems the CoolerMist has a Little Tiny spray hole compared to the Snow Great Big Spray Hole.

Still can't bog it at WOT. I CAN detect a SOTP improvement in overall jump and acceleration telling me there's a big increase in injection rate (volume).


Here's my heap ~
An eight gallon tank located on the passenger side of the tool box in the bed has a 1/4" OD tube about 16" long feeding the pump. That pump feeds directly to a 3/8" ID tube that's about 18' long. It routes uninterrupted across the front of the bed, down under the truck, up to the driver's front fender, and to the engine bay just behind the battery.




From there, it goes directly to a Tee fitting where it splits into two 1/4" OD tubes of about 10" long that go to the two nozzles.





I run the VariCool controller that varies the W/M flow from approximately 30% at 17psig boost on up to 100% at 25psig boost. (All variables such as start and full on set-points as well as the slope in between the two points is fully adjustable).

I can set it to come full on at 17psig or so boost and can note a change in the engine sound that suggests to me that it's hitting pretty hard in the lower to mid-range RPMs.


I guess my thought is that most suggest to add the booze till it chokes then back off till it just clears up. In that shade of light, do I need to add more by way of a third nozzle? (As far as I can tell about the pumps, the 150psi pump should be able to support up to three nozzles per Snow).





. . . . Or am I just begging for my head gasket to bust a gut?

What'chall reckon?

 

i have no clue. that sure is a clean looking engine and engine comp though. id say that you ought to stop at two. thats alot of stuff your pushing with those two water hoses

brett

 

Well i aint no expert but. If it were me id check water pressure before i do anything, it sounds like it may be low. Either nozzles should in practice supply enough water.

 

Try a bigger hose from the output of the pump to the nozzles. It may not seem like much but a small incremental resistance can add up to a big drop in pressure at full flow.

Edwin

 

Shouldnt you be able to swap to a 220 pump and get more there? I havent messed with it enough but taht seems logical to me...

 

To use an analogy from electronics, think of the pump pressure as voltage, the nozzles as resistance and the volume as current. To get more current you either lower the resistance, or increase the voltage. If the lines are adding resistance a fatter line will lower that bit of resistance and give you more flow. Does the pump have an adjustment for pressure or is it running full out? If it's not cycling then you need a bigger pump.

Edwin

 

a third nozzle wont help unless it increases volume, while at the same time not reducing pressure. sound like your stacking fluid (for lack of a better term) somewhere in you system, and without reducing that restriction, another nozzle won't help.

as far as line size goes, i'd try making a portable test stand (a board with 2 empty 2 ltr bottles) and fire the system for a set amount of time. measure the volume. increase line size to nozzles and test for same amount of time. measure volume and compare. basically what i'm getting at is thats the only way you'll know (short of time on a chassis dyno) if your changes are making a difference

daryl

 

A test stand is good as far as it goes but remember that the line pressure will be reduced by the boost pressure it's working against. If you have 120 psi in your WM system and 30 psi of boost you actually have 90 psi pushing WM out of the nozzles.

Edwin

 

I would definitely put a bigger line from the tank to the pump, especially if the line from the pump to the intake is larger than the line thats feeding the pump.

 

Line size isnt very critical on inj systems, however he is correct on his analogy. I run 3/8 on systems i build, for no other reason then its easily avalible here. Line size should be predetermened if you bought a kit.

As far as pump goes, i would think yours has a internal pressure cutout, put a cheapo gauge before the tee, (nozzles unhooked) run water line straight to the gauge. You need to unhook your control box just use battery power to feed the pump, turn pump on and verify the pressure, also note when it cuts off, if its cutting off to soon the pressure switch is bad, shurflo has replacements. Also as was said if you produce 150 psi subtract your boost psi and thats you water psi under WOT. Most nozzles need around 60 to atomize correctly, so the need for pressure is two fold, one is gph and atomazation.

It will be a pump or a filter problem, or has been on my systems. That is the main reason i only run bypass pumps, no pressure cutout.

Hope this helps.

 

Try this pump, it's the same one I have.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...6970_9414_9414

 

Well poot!

At this point my W/M system consists of the following ~

- Six gallon tank in the aluminum crossover toolbox in the bed.
- Ten inches of 3/8" OD / 1/4" ID CPVC connects the tank to the pump.
- Snow 220psi pump controlled by the CoolerMist Varicool head: 30% capacity at 17psig ramping up to 100% capacity at 30psig.
- About 18 feet of 3/8" ID fiber reinforced tubing connects the pump to the nozzles.
- Just before the nozzles, I've a Tee fitting reducing the 3/8" ID feed line to two (2) 1/4" OD lines about 12" long.
- Those two lines feed two Snow .625 nozzles mounted just before the wye of the TwinRam intake. The nozzles face each other.
- Throughout the system, all electrical power lines are 14awg stranded copper.






. . .. . Still can't bog it, even with the pumps pressure adjustment run in six additional turns.

It does seem stronger.

To the point that I've a couple of questions.

1 ~ Is it possible to power through second gear's clutch-pack during a hard launch?
2 ~ Is it possible to blow a head gasket and not effect over all engine operation. Engine runs just fine but I see wet between the head and block under the alternator bracket.

In the next week I'm gonna pull the trans and mess with it some. I ain't ready to pull the head just yet.

 

Pressure seems really low on that pump to me... Heck at full boost I'd be blowing bubbles in the water/meth tank!!

 

I'm surprised it won't bog. Check the voltage coming out of the controller to make sure you get full power.

 

On average a cummins starts to bog around 31 gph, theres a fairly easy test, drop both nozzles into a pitcher and turn it on, after 6 minutes multiply the amout you have by ten and thats water flow, a bit of math figuring out loss off pressure your boost accounts for and you know exactly.