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1st Gen. Ram - All TopicsDiscussion for all Dodge Rams prior to 1994. This includes engine, drivetrain and non-drivetrain discussions. Anything prior to 1994 should go in here.
BRD, call (916)371-5223, that's Diamond Diesel in West Sacramento, CA. Ask for Margaret or Dave. Send them this picture via email, with areas highlighted, and they'll have any part you need. They are a Bosch certified injection pump shop.
Another one is Valley Fuel Injection out of Woodland, CA. Their number is (530)668-0818. Ask for a guy named Dave. They'll have that part.
If this is a pic that you saved from Jim Layne's pic collection, it should have came with a parts number list. Give that number to those shops, also.
don't know what I'd do without you big, thanks a lot!
for anyone who may think they are in the same predicament as me, i have valuable information.
there is NO spring in the center of the couplers (underneath the cam plate) on our trucks! those springs are in HIGHER reving vehicles like the vw TDI's and some volvo TDI's.
i knew i didnt lose anything
but now the problem still persists. my truck wont start and i have indexes the throttle all over the place. i have the fuel lines to the injectors removed and one thing i noticed when removing them is that the back 3 injectors had large air bubbles in them even after bleeding the lines for a solid 5 cranks + PRIMING EVERYTHING before ever trying to crank... not sure if i want to remove the pump again after seeing that.
my question: knowing that there were no air bubbles in the front 3 lines, will the back 3 lines having air bubbles cause no start?
if yes: i will reinstall the lines, re prime everything, and work the air bubbles out this time with a can of ether (no grid heaters in my rig, for anyone wondering why thats relative... NEVER TRY TO START YOUR TRUCK WITH ETHER IF YOU HAVE GRID HEATERS).
if no: i will continue removing the pump and take it back apart and see whats up
Did you try just cranking it with the fuel shut off solenoid harness disconnected? For the first initial cranks? If so, you have to replace that harness. I apologize if you already meant that you did this in your last post. I was just clarifying.
You shouldn't need to use ether to bleed everything out. When you loosen up the bleed screw, is there fuel pouring out solid with no air bubbles?
When I removed and replaced my pump, it took awhile for it to finally start up and idle. My idle was really, really low. I had to readjust the idle screw to get it back up to spec. Then it blew out white smoke for the longest time and finally went back to that gray haze.
Did you ever pick up one of those new throttle position sensors?
Here's a pic I found here on DTR from another member that posted. I used this pic to make sure my lines connecting back to the injector pump were oriented correctly. It's a shot in the dark, but just double check to make sure your lines are reconnected in this sequence.
This view is you looking at the backside of the VE pump, opposite end of the VE shaft.
Did you try just cranking it with the fuel shut off solenoid harness disconnected? For the first initial cranks? If so, you have to replace that harness. I apologize if you already meant that you did this in your last post. I was just clarifying.
You shouldn't need to use ether to bleed everything out. When you loosen up the bleed screw, is there fuel pouring out solid with no air bubbles?
When I removed and replaced my pump, it took awhile for it to finally start up and idle. My idle was really, really low. I had to readjust the idle screw to get it back up to spec. Then it blew out white smoke for the longest time and finally went back to that gray haze.
Did you ever pick up one of those new throttle position sensors?
no the harness was hooked up but why would that mean i have to replace the harness? i need to anyways so ill do that today as well, its old cracked and the **** thing falls off all the time lol.
ive been bleeding them by cracking the actual injector nuts on top of the injectors, should i be using the little bolts on the side of the injectors?
and yeah it fit up just like the old one did (TPS)! only 25 bucks so as long as it works for about a year im happy with it lol
When I meant to replace the harness, I meant to reconnect it. Sometimes it helps to bleed out items like power steering pumps, injector pumps, and even get oil pressures up by cranking on the ignition without the FSS connected, so you don't actually start the truck and ruin things on a dry start. For the VE bleed, it's just a few cranks to make sure fuel has filled that VE and gotten fuel into the lines to the injectors. Then reconnect the harness to the FSS, have the injector lines cracked loosely at the injector connections, and start the truck up. It should stumble, the engine, while it's blowing out the air bubbles. As you tighten each injector one by one, the stumbling will go away.
This method is also a good way to see if you have a faulted injector(s). With the engine idling, crack each injector nut slowly and the engine should stumble. If it doesn't stumble, you have a faulty injector.
For the bleeding process, You do not need to do anything to the return line connections at the sides of the injectors, with those horseshoe copper seals(banjo seals). You just need to make sure those don't leak, is all.
Did you check the orientation of the fuel line connections at the back of the VE pump?
When I meant to replace the harness, I meant to reconnect it. Sometimes it helps to bleed out items like power steering pumps, injector pumps, and even get oil pressures up by cranking on the ignition without the FSS connected, so you don't actually start the truck and ruin things on a dry start. For the VE bleed, it's just a few cranks to make sure fuel has filled that VE and gotten fuel into the lines to the injectors. Then reconnect the harness to the FSS, have the injector lines cracked loosely at the injector connections, and start the truck up. It should stumble, the engine, while it's blowing out the air bubbles. As you tighten each injector one by one, the stumbling will go away.
This method is also a good way to see if you have a faulted injector(s). With the engine idling, crack each injector nut slowly and the engine should stumble. If it doesn't stumble, you have a faulty injector.
For the bleeding process, You do not need to do anything to the return line connections at the sides of the injectors, with those horseshoe copper seals(banjo seals). You just need to make sure those don't leak, is all.
Did you check the orientation of the fuel line connections at the back of the VE pump?
hmm ok didnt think of that but i did prefill the pump, i know the camplate orientation is good etc. maybe i just didnt bleed the injectors enough?
idk it didnt even stumble or act like it wanted to start. i cranked it 5 or more times for 5-10 seconds each time. the only difference i started to notice was the smell of burnt diesel before i quit cranking..
when i first started i didnt have any diesel smell
Being that the injectors are at the side of the exhaust manifold, maybe some spilled onto that hot manifold maybe causing the smell?
Careful on over cranking- I believe the shop manual mentions something about a rest time between cranking. I want to say it's in the steering section of the book, when they explain the process of bleeding the power steering pump.
Can't remember, but did you already mention a new FSS installed? Check that harness connection. There were many suggestions by JMartin about removing that slip on connector and just putting in an eyelet connector and outright bolting it onto that FSS nut. I refused to do that for years, till a recent test drive caused me to shut down in the middle of nowhere. The harness just popped right off, so at that point I took his suggestion.
If you decide to change that terminal to an eyelet, May I offer a tip, in replacing that tiny nut into that FSS, as it is really hard to get a hand in there to even re thread that tiny nut back on? I started using stick rosin, the stuff from big5 in the baseball section. That rosin comes in a stick form, made to rub onto baseball bat grips for a sticky, sure grip. I've used that on my fingers and on my sockets at times, just to hold the nut in place so I don't drop it in the engine compartment and lose it.
I'm all out of suggestions as to what may be causing that original low power issue, and now the no start. All my suggestions you have already done prior, and I hate to suggest this, but maybe a pump rebuild? Weighing out the cost of a rebuild, if it were me, I'd probably invest in a set of new injectors first. You were actually wondering if those could be at fault, and I don't know if they are the original ones. They do get tired, the factory ones, at over 20 years of age. I'm not sure what a pump rebuild would cost; seems I've read somewhere anywhere from $600 to $1500. A new, primo quality, set of injectors will run you about $500.
Maybe you have a source somewhere, to outright borrow a set just to check if the injectors are on their way out?
Being that the injectors are at the side of the exhaust manifold, maybe some spilled onto that hot manifold maybe causing the smell?
Careful on over cranking- I believe the shop manual mentions something about a rest time between cranking. I want to say it's in the steering section of the book, when they explain the process of bleeding the power steering pump.
Can't remember, but did you already mention a new FSS installed? Check that harness connection. There were many suggestions by JMartin about removing that slip on connector and just putting in an eyelet connector and outright bolting it onto that FSS nut. I refused to do that for years, till a recent test drive caused me to shut down in the middle of nowhere. The harness just popped right off, so at that point I took his suggestion.
If you decide to change that terminal to an eyelet, May I offer a tip, in replacing that tiny nut into that FSS, as it is really hard to get a hand in there to even re thread that tiny nut back on? I started using stick rosin, the stuff from big5 in the baseball section. That rosin comes in a stick form, made to rub onto baseball bat grips for a sticky, sure grip. I've used that on my fingers and on my sockets at times, just to hold the nut in place so I don't drop it in the engine compartment and lose it.
I'm all out of suggestions as to what may be causing that original low power issue, and now the no start. All my suggestions you have already done prior, and I hate to suggest this, but maybe a pump rebuild? Weighing out the cost of a rebuild, if it were me, I'd probably invest in a set of new injectors first. You were actually wondering if those could be at fault, and I don't know if they are the original ones. They do get tired, the factory ones, at over 20 years of age. I'm not sure what a pump rebuild would cost; seems I've read somewhere anywhere from $600 to $1500. A new, primo quality, set of injectors will run you about $500.
Maybe you have a source somewhere, to outright borrow a set just to check if the injectors are on their way out?
no new fss and the connections definitely aren't the best by any means. I think I'll pull the pump and open it up just to double check it all. if it looks good I'll put it back together with new eyelet connectors on the fss and try again.
then it might be time for a new pump if that fails lol. or idk maybe I broke something in there, I'll find out and let you know today lol
would top hat gov spring assembly being put in wrong cause no start? lol other than that all looks good from this view, I turned the pump over by hand with a wrench and moved the fuel pin lever. collar is connected to ball and moving easily plunger is moving etc.
When I changed my governor spring I ignored the advice about backing out the fuel screw. The lever next to the tophat spring got crushed under the fuel screw and the truck wouldn't start. I wound up having to replace the entire assembly and eventually the whole pump because of leaks.
My guess is that the tophat spring COULD very well cause your non-start issue.
When I bled my injectors recently I had all the nuts loose at the injector end and had the wife crank until fuel was shooting up to the hood. Then I tightened them all down and fired it right up. It ran rough for a little bit but then it smoothed out and runs fine now.
When I changed my governor spring I ignored the advice about backing out the fuel screw. The lever next to the tophat spring got crushed under the fuel screw and the truck wouldn't start. I wound up having to replace the entire assembly and eventually the whole pump because of leaks.
My guess is that the tophat spring COULD very well cause your non-start issue.
When I bled my injectors recently I had all the nuts loose at the injector end and had the wife crank until fuel was shooting up to the hood. Then I tightened them all down and fired it right up. It ran rough for a little bit but then it smoothed out and runs fine now.
Edwin
alright I just got it put back together and miss aligned the woodruff key so I have to take it back off tomorrow and finish it up.
last time I bled it, it did cover my black foam Underhood thing in diesel along with everything else. maybe still not enough I'll know tomorrow hopefully
well I worked on it for a few hours today just trying to get the woodruff key lined up. idk what the deal is but it's not working. destroyed 2 keys trying to get it in, no bueno.
won't be able to work on it until early next week so I'll get some more keys and update next week.
any ideas as to why the keyways a rent lining up? half the key gets in half gets crushed no matter what I try
edit; also I took the radiator out so I could see better after I squished the first key, everything looks like it's all lined up until I torque it down lol. guess this next one I'll paint the top of it bright orange. idk what else to do
Stupid question, BRD, and don't take this as I'm challenging your credentials, but are you positive on the direction the woodruff key sits in the shaft crevice?
I can't even remember now- does the half moon face up, or face down?
I have a 100% feeling I did the same thing, somehow squished the key with my pump reinstall. I made sure my key was at 12:00 prior to removing the pump, I had the hash line timing marks in line, followed shop manual procedures and the three videos, and even after I reindstalled it, and the marks fell in line, I somehow retarded the timing a bit. One of these days I'm going to pull it out again to double check.
Where are you picking up your keys from? Decent price? I have two spares, but if they're cheap enough, I may get a half dozen more, since I plan on forever keeping this truck.
well I hope so! I've been putting the round part in the shaft so that the flat part goes into the gear. I found them locally for 35 cents a piece! though I feel the quality isn't as great as the old one that was in there. this one smoothed so bad I had to weld on it to get it out, hope I didn't ruin my shaft seal.
in starting to think my pump timing may have gone off a bit because half the key is going in the gear slot half the key is getting squished... I tried moving the gear thinking maybe I got it out of time, no way to move it with the front cover on.
next time.i get a chance to work on it I'll see what that timing bolt does exactly.
I just had a thought.. if I have been spinning the pump on a bench vise with a wrench... would that throw it out of time? like to where my truck won't start? or is it only the gear in the gear box that times it?
11-02-2017, 07:52 PM
re prime everything, and work the air bubbles out this time with a can of ether (no grid heaters in my rig, for anyone wondering why thats relative... NEVER TRY TO START YOUR TRUCK WITH ETHER IF YOU HAVE GRID HEATERS).
