Electrical Gremlins - 93 Wont Start
02-02-2016, 10:23 PM
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Electrical Gremlins - 93 Wont Start
This is going to be long...
OK. So my truck sat for a few weeks.
I go to start it the other day and nothing.
Put the key in, turn the key forward and nothing. No gauge movement, wait to start light, no solenoid clicks. Nothing.
Figured it was my battery.
Charged it. Nothing.
Swapped batteries. Nothing. Tried jump starting, charging, swapping with others. Nothing. I've ruled out the battery issue.
I figure it's my ignition switch.
Slap in a new one.
Still nothing.
The only difference I notice is the the red oil light comes on. Dim, but it lights up.
So I get to fumbling with the fuse box, and connections and pretty much trying every combination of motions to get a response.
This is where it gets weird....
I notice that when the key is forward and I pull back on the "brights" lever that the brights do not come on, but the oil light lights up full.
With the bright lever pulled and oil light lit up I turn the key all the way and the truck actually tries to turn over. It poorly cranks in between starter solenoid clicks. It would almost turn over fast enough to start but it would cut in and out.
If I was not pulling back on the brights lever it would not even attempt to start.
So I fumble with the terminals, add jumper cables to help give it a boost from a running vehicle. Jump in and turn the key forward, no more oil light this time. Still no gauges. Again, nothing.
So I start fumbling with any and all wires between the wheel and the battery. Unplug what can be unplugged, clean connections, plug back in, wiggle terminals, make a wish, do a backflip. Nothing positive.
In between all these failed attempts it would try and start. It became a hit or miss of poor cranking or dead as a doornail. At one point the grid heaters even cycled but at the end of their run it would not even try and turn over.
Again, with all this the motor would only crank if the oil light was on and brights lever pulled. No gauge activity with the key in any position.
And again, any time it tried to turn over it would be weak, cutting in and out with the starter solenoid clicking away as if the battery were weak despite trying 3 different batteries and being jumpered to a running vehicle.
I'm gonna throw out some ideas, please tell me if my thinking is wrong. I'd love to be wrong so I can get to the right answer.
It's not the computer.
I've had my computer go out once and I was still able to start and drive around for a few weeks while I got the new one in. Everything worked, minus the OD, alt charging, ect.
It might be the starter relay located on the fender behind the battery? Perhaps?
If it were, why would the gauges not work properly along with all of the other random and intermittent behavior?
The starter switch I got was bad out of the box? Granted I didn't swap back to the original to try but I don't see a faulty starter switch giving me several different random behaviors.
Gird heater relays?
Granted the came on and cycled once, why didn't my gauges respond and why didn't it start or even try to turn over after the cycle?
I ran out of daylight and patience today to try any more ideas.
Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
I'll be digging up my FSM to see what it has to say.
OK. So my truck sat for a few weeks.
I go to start it the other day and nothing.
Put the key in, turn the key forward and nothing. No gauge movement, wait to start light, no solenoid clicks. Nothing.
Figured it was my battery.
Charged it. Nothing.
Swapped batteries. Nothing. Tried jump starting, charging, swapping with others. Nothing. I've ruled out the battery issue.
I figure it's my ignition switch.
Slap in a new one.
Still nothing.
The only difference I notice is the the red oil light comes on. Dim, but it lights up.
So I get to fumbling with the fuse box, and connections and pretty much trying every combination of motions to get a response.
This is where it gets weird....
I notice that when the key is forward and I pull back on the "brights" lever that the brights do not come on, but the oil light lights up full.
With the bright lever pulled and oil light lit up I turn the key all the way and the truck actually tries to turn over. It poorly cranks in between starter solenoid clicks. It would almost turn over fast enough to start but it would cut in and out.
If I was not pulling back on the brights lever it would not even attempt to start.
So I fumble with the terminals, add jumper cables to help give it a boost from a running vehicle. Jump in and turn the key forward, no more oil light this time. Still no gauges. Again, nothing.
So I start fumbling with any and all wires between the wheel and the battery. Unplug what can be unplugged, clean connections, plug back in, wiggle terminals, make a wish, do a backflip. Nothing positive.
In between all these failed attempts it would try and start. It became a hit or miss of poor cranking or dead as a doornail. At one point the grid heaters even cycled but at the end of their run it would not even try and turn over.
Again, with all this the motor would only crank if the oil light was on and brights lever pulled. No gauge activity with the key in any position.
And again, any time it tried to turn over it would be weak, cutting in and out with the starter solenoid clicking away as if the battery were weak despite trying 3 different batteries and being jumpered to a running vehicle.
I'm gonna throw out some ideas, please tell me if my thinking is wrong. I'd love to be wrong so I can get to the right answer.
It's not the computer.
I've had my computer go out once and I was still able to start and drive around for a few weeks while I got the new one in. Everything worked, minus the OD, alt charging, ect.
It might be the starter relay located on the fender behind the battery? Perhaps?
If it were, why would the gauges not work properly along with all of the other random and intermittent behavior?
The starter switch I got was bad out of the box? Granted I didn't swap back to the original to try but I don't see a faulty starter switch giving me several different random behaviors.
Gird heater relays?
Granted the came on and cycled once, why didn't my gauges respond and why didn't it start or even try to turn over after the cycle?
I ran out of daylight and patience today to try any more ideas.
Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
I'll be digging up my FSM to see what it has to say.
02-03-2016, 06:33 AM
#2
Sounds like a bad connection somewhere in the wiring. I would first check all the grounds, to make sure the words are good, and connections are clean and tight. Especially the one on the core support by the battery, that one has came loose on me before and caused a no start. While checking grounds make sure connections are tight on the starter as well.
If that doesn't cure the problem, I would check the fusible links located between the PCM and the fire wall, make sure they are good and connections are good. I've heard that the fusible link will stretch when you pull on them if they are bad. If you probe them with a test light to check make sure you check them at both ends of each, then seal up the puncture holes to prevent moisture from getting in them later and causing issues.
If all of that is good, I would start going into every wire harness looking for bad wires. I don't know how the rodent population is in Texas, but here in south east Colorado, if I was to let my truck sit for a few weeks I would have a herd of mice living in it causing issues.
If that doesn't cure the problem, I would check the fusible links located between the PCM and the fire wall, make sure they are good and connections are good. I've heard that the fusible link will stretch when you pull on them if they are bad. If you probe them with a test light to check make sure you check them at both ends of each, then seal up the puncture holes to prevent moisture from getting in them later and causing issues.
If all of that is good, I would start going into every wire harness looking for bad wires. I don't know how the rodent population is in Texas, but here in south east Colorado, if I was to let my truck sit for a few weeks I would have a herd of mice living in it causing issues.
02-03-2016, 12:03 PM
#3
Registered User
Get a diagram and a meter, and start following the power feed from the battery, through the fusible links, and to the ignition switch.
Everything else in this thread is just guessing.
One of the problems with guessing, and throwing parts at it is you often convert a single fault (fairly easy to find with diagnostics) to a multiple fault problem. Now that's real trouble.
Everything else in this thread is just guessing.
One of the problems with guessing, and throwing parts at it is you often convert a single fault (fairly easy to find with diagnostics) to a multiple fault problem. Now that's real trouble.
02-04-2016, 08:36 PM
#4
Registered User
This is going to be long...
OK. So my truck sat for a few weeks.
I go to start it the other day and nothing.
Put the key in, turn the key forward and nothing. No gauge movement, wait to start light, no solenoid clicks. Nothing.
Figured it was my battery.
Charged it. Nothing.
Swapped batteries. Nothing. Tried jump starting, charging, swapping with others. Nothing. I've ruled out the battery issue.
I figure it's my ignition switch.
Slap in a new one.
Still nothing.
The only difference I notice is the the red oil light comes on. Dim, but it lights up.
So I get to fumbling with the fuse box, and connections and pretty much trying every combination of motions to get a response.
This is where it gets weird....
I notice that when the key is forward and I pull back on the "brights" lever that the brights do not come on, but the oil light lights up full.
With the bright lever pulled and oil light lit up I turn the key all the way and the truck actually tries to turn over. It poorly cranks in between starter solenoid clicks. It would almost turn over fast enough to start but it would cut in and out.
If I was not pulling back on the brights lever it would not even attempt to start.
So I fumble with the terminals, add jumper cables to help give it a boost from a running vehicle. Jump in and turn the key forward, no more oil light this time. Still no gauges. Again, nothing.
So I start fumbling with any and all wires between the wheel and the battery. Unplug what can be unplugged, clean connections, plug back in, wiggle terminals, make a wish, do a backflip. Nothing positive.
In between all these failed attempts it would try and start. It became a hit or miss of poor cranking or dead as a doornail. At one point the grid heaters even cycled but at the end of their run it would not even try and turn over.
Again, with all this the motor would only crank if the oil light was on and brights lever pulled. No gauge activity with the key in any position.
And again, any time it tried to turn over it would be weak, cutting in and out with the starter solenoid clicking away as if the battery were weak despite trying 3 different batteries and being jumpered to a running vehicle.
I'm gonna throw out some ideas, please tell me if my thinking is wrong. I'd love to be wrong so I can get to the right answer.
It's not the computer.
I've had my computer go out once and I was still able to start and drive around for a few weeks while I got the new one in. Everything worked, minus the OD, alt charging, ect.
It might be the starter relay located on the fender behind the battery? Perhaps?
If it were, why would the gauges not work properly along with all of the other random and intermittent behavior?
The starter switch I got was bad out of the box? Granted I didn't swap back to the original to try but I don't see a faulty starter switch giving me several different random behaviors.
Gird heater relays?
Granted the came on and cycled once, why didn't my gauges respond and why didn't it start or even try to turn over after the cycle?
I ran out of daylight and patience today to try any more ideas.
Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
I'll be digging up my FSM to see what it has to say.
OK. So my truck sat for a few weeks.
I go to start it the other day and nothing.
Put the key in, turn the key forward and nothing. No gauge movement, wait to start light, no solenoid clicks. Nothing.
Figured it was my battery.
Charged it. Nothing.
Swapped batteries. Nothing. Tried jump starting, charging, swapping with others. Nothing. I've ruled out the battery issue.
I figure it's my ignition switch.
Slap in a new one.
Still nothing.
The only difference I notice is the the red oil light comes on. Dim, but it lights up.
So I get to fumbling with the fuse box, and connections and pretty much trying every combination of motions to get a response.
This is where it gets weird....
I notice that when the key is forward and I pull back on the "brights" lever that the brights do not come on, but the oil light lights up full.
With the bright lever pulled and oil light lit up I turn the key all the way and the truck actually tries to turn over. It poorly cranks in between starter solenoid clicks. It would almost turn over fast enough to start but it would cut in and out.
If I was not pulling back on the brights lever it would not even attempt to start.
So I fumble with the terminals, add jumper cables to help give it a boost from a running vehicle. Jump in and turn the key forward, no more oil light this time. Still no gauges. Again, nothing.
So I start fumbling with any and all wires between the wheel and the battery. Unplug what can be unplugged, clean connections, plug back in, wiggle terminals, make a wish, do a backflip. Nothing positive.
In between all these failed attempts it would try and start. It became a hit or miss of poor cranking or dead as a doornail. At one point the grid heaters even cycled but at the end of their run it would not even try and turn over.
Again, with all this the motor would only crank if the oil light was on and brights lever pulled. No gauge activity with the key in any position.
And again, any time it tried to turn over it would be weak, cutting in and out with the starter solenoid clicking away as if the battery were weak despite trying 3 different batteries and being jumpered to a running vehicle.
I'm gonna throw out some ideas, please tell me if my thinking is wrong. I'd love to be wrong so I can get to the right answer.
It's not the computer.
I've had my computer go out once and I was still able to start and drive around for a few weeks while I got the new one in. Everything worked, minus the OD, alt charging, ect.
It might be the starter relay located on the fender behind the battery? Perhaps?
If it were, why would the gauges not work properly along with all of the other random and intermittent behavior?
The starter switch I got was bad out of the box? Granted I didn't swap back to the original to try but I don't see a faulty starter switch giving me several different random behaviors.
Gird heater relays?
Granted the came on and cycled once, why didn't my gauges respond and why didn't it start or even try to turn over after the cycle?
I ran out of daylight and patience today to try any more ideas.
Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
I'll be digging up my FSM to see what it has to say.
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klc54 (07-30-2017)
02-05-2016, 07:58 AM
#5
Registered User
This might sound crazy, but I would pull the negative cable where it hooks to the block. Clean it up and start from there. I say this cause your situation sounds kind of abnormal. I could be totally wrong, but I've had a totally different rig do this, and it was the eventual fix. J.Martin is watching, you'll figure it out. Good luck man.
02-08-2016, 08:02 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stephenville / Harlingen Texas
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Sounds like a bad connection somewhere in the wiring. I would first check all the grounds, to make sure the words are good, and connections are clean and tight. Especially the one on the core support by the battery, that one has came loose on me before and caused a no start. While checking grounds make sure connections are tight on the starter as well.
If that doesn't cure the problem, I would check the fusible links located between the PCM and the fire wall, make sure they are good and connections are good. I've heard that the fusible link will stretch when you pull on them if they are bad. If you probe them with a test light to check make sure you check them at both ends of each, then seal up the puncture holes to prevent moisture from getting in them later and causing issues.
If all of that is good, I would start going into every wire harness looking for bad wires. I don't know how the rodent population is in Texas, but here in south east Colorado, if I was to let my truck sit for a few weeks I would have a herd of mice living in it causing issues.
If that doesn't cure the problem, I would check the fusible links located between the PCM and the fire wall, make sure they are good and connections are good. I've heard that the fusible link will stretch when you pull on them if they are bad. If you probe them with a test light to check make sure you check them at both ends of each, then seal up the puncture holes to prevent moisture from getting in them later and causing issues.
If all of that is good, I would start going into every wire harness looking for bad wires. I don't know how the rodent population is in Texas, but here in south east Colorado, if I was to let my truck sit for a few weeks I would have a herd of mice living in it causing issues.
After your reply about checking the fuseable links I decided to search just that term regarding them on first gens.
I managed to find two separate forum articles that focused on this lone orange wire going bad...
http://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.dieseltruckresource.com-vbulletin/600x450/picture_php_pictureid_17804_36ca223cec6c78b22b731d b7bc7cdef6585ae0b5.jpg
http://www.redalderranch.com/pictures/fuses.jpg
Even found this tech diagram about it going out and how to replace it....
http://ramchargercentral.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/12012/fusible_link_repair.jpg
Knowing full well these old Chryslers are consistent in their design failures, I checked that harness first and sure enough that wire had a growth of fuzzy green corrosion right at the base of the wire where it meets the 5-plug block. The corrosion was so bad the wire disintegrated and fell off and out of it base. I stripped the wire back and cleaned out the plug hole with the awl on my leatherman, shoved the bare wire back in and the grids kicked on and cycled and the gauges all responded as they should. Truck fired right up and ran fine.
Let this be a heads up to all the aging first gen drivers.
Looks like it's time to redo all of the wiring.
Once again, thank all of you for the replies.
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