Tips for Mountain decents without an exhaust brake.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Montana
Others disagree with my previously posted opinions on this subject, but I think we all agree that SLOW IS THE WAY. If you have a really heavy load, you should consider going downhill as slow as 10mph or maybe even less.
Think it through. Your brakes are converting kinetic energy (energy of movement) into thermal energy (heat).
So you have two concerns with your brakes-- the amount of heat they can hold (thermal capacity) and the rate at which they can shed heat. The problem is that the better you make one, the worse the other gets. For example, big beefy cast iron rotors will hold a lot of heat, but that's also precisely why they don't cool that fast.
Descending slowly helps for two reasons. First, it reduced the heat the brakes see because there's less energy for them to convert to heat. A truck/trailer combo has FOUR TIMES more energy when you double the speed. Thus, if you cut the speed in half, the workload on your brakes goes down by 75%!
Secondly, the slower speed gives a lot more time for the brakes to shed their heat to the surrounding atmosphere.
Now the question becomes: is it better to just ride the brakes all the way down, nice and easy-- or should you "snub brake" like you see all the big rigs doing down the hill.
Well, how confident are you that your braking system is balanced? On big rigs, it's highly doubtful that every air valve is operating the same, and the likelihood of perfect synchronization of 18 separate brake cylinders is pretty slight. This is why they "snub brake" because if the imbalance-- otherwise it's likely that one wheel is doing more braking than the others, and on a long steady descent, it would get hot and fail.
But on a pickup with only 4 brakes a hydraulic brake system (vs the air system on big trucks), the liklihood of brake imbalance is very low in my opinion, and thus it's not hurting anything to ride the brakes for longer periods of time at slowers speeds.
It's a good idea, imo, though to still "snub" every 15 seconds or so (not the 2-3 sec like the big trucks), just to re-seat the pads in the housings and such. Just don't let your rig get a head of steam going.
So, go down slowly, ride the brakes for 15-20 second or so (maintain steady slow speed), then "snub" to a speed that's 5mph slower. Then, foot off the brakes and let the rig gain back that 5mph and go back to riding the brakes for another 15-20 seconds.
Wash, rinse, repeat and you'll be safely down the hill in only 3 times the amount of time it took to climb it!
JMO
Think it through. Your brakes are converting kinetic energy (energy of movement) into thermal energy (heat).
So you have two concerns with your brakes-- the amount of heat they can hold (thermal capacity) and the rate at which they can shed heat. The problem is that the better you make one, the worse the other gets. For example, big beefy cast iron rotors will hold a lot of heat, but that's also precisely why they don't cool that fast.
Descending slowly helps for two reasons. First, it reduced the heat the brakes see because there's less energy for them to convert to heat. A truck/trailer combo has FOUR TIMES more energy when you double the speed. Thus, if you cut the speed in half, the workload on your brakes goes down by 75%!
Secondly, the slower speed gives a lot more time for the brakes to shed their heat to the surrounding atmosphere.
Now the question becomes: is it better to just ride the brakes all the way down, nice and easy-- or should you "snub brake" like you see all the big rigs doing down the hill.
Well, how confident are you that your braking system is balanced? On big rigs, it's highly doubtful that every air valve is operating the same, and the likelihood of perfect synchronization of 18 separate brake cylinders is pretty slight. This is why they "snub brake" because if the imbalance-- otherwise it's likely that one wheel is doing more braking than the others, and on a long steady descent, it would get hot and fail.
But on a pickup with only 4 brakes a hydraulic brake system (vs the air system on big trucks), the liklihood of brake imbalance is very low in my opinion, and thus it's not hurting anything to ride the brakes for longer periods of time at slowers speeds.
It's a good idea, imo, though to still "snub" every 15 seconds or so (not the 2-3 sec like the big trucks), just to re-seat the pads in the housings and such. Just don't let your rig get a head of steam going.
So, go down slowly, ride the brakes for 15-20 second or so (maintain steady slow speed), then "snub" to a speed that's 5mph slower. Then, foot off the brakes and let the rig gain back that 5mph and go back to riding the brakes for another 15-20 seconds.
Wash, rinse, repeat and you'll be safely down the hill in only 3 times the amount of time it took to climb it!
JMO
It took only one trip pulling heavy to convince me that an e-brake is a must for pulling. Never again.
Especially the long downgrades with a stop at the bottom. With the ebrake, you use it all the way down with only minimal touching of the service brakes now and then to keep speed down. But when you get to the bottom and have to stop the load, thats when you also apply the fresh service brakes to stop you. Otherwise youre riding them off & on all the way down and they are already hot when you need to stop. That will really burn em up fast and warp the rotors when sitting with the brakes applied holding you stopped at the bottom.
Just get the ebrake and get it over with. You will be very happy you did.
Especially the long downgrades with a stop at the bottom. With the ebrake, you use it all the way down with only minimal touching of the service brakes now and then to keep speed down. But when you get to the bottom and have to stop the load, thats when you also apply the fresh service brakes to stop you. Otherwise youre riding them off & on all the way down and they are already hot when you need to stop. That will really burn em up fast and warp the rotors when sitting with the brakes applied holding you stopped at the bottom.
Just get the ebrake and get it over with. You will be very happy you did.
So, go down slowly, ride the brakes for 15-20 second or so (maintain steady slow speed), then "snub" to a speed that's 5mph slower. Then, foot off the brakes and let the rig gain back that 5mph and go back to riding the brakes for another 15-20 seconds.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 500
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From: conroe tx
Others disagree with my previously posted opinions on this subject, but I think we all agree that SLOW IS THE WAY. If you have a really heavy load, you should consider going downhill as slow as 10mph or maybe even less.
Think it through. Your brakes are converting kinetic energy (energy of movement) into thermal energy (heat).
So you have two concerns with your brakes-- the amount of heat they can hold (thermal capacity) and the rate at which they can shed heat. The problem is that the better you make one, the worse the other gets. For example, big beefy cast iron rotors will hold a lot of heat, but that's also precisely why they don't cool that fast.
Descending slowly helps for two reasons. First, it reduced the heat the brakes see because there's less energy for them to convert to heat. A truck/trailer combo has FOUR TIMES more energy when you double the speed. Thus, if you cut the speed in half, the workload on your brakes goes down by 75%!
Secondly, the slower speed gives a lot more time for the brakes to shed their heat to the surrounding atmosphere.
Now the question becomes: is it better to just ride the brakes all the way down, nice and easy-- or should you "snub brake" like you see all the big rigs doing down the hill.
Well, how confident are you that your braking system is balanced? On big rigs, it's highly doubtful that every air valve is operating the same, and the likelihood of perfect synchronization of 18 separate brake cylinders is pretty slight. This is why they "snub brake" because if the imbalance-- otherwise it's likely that one wheel is doing more braking than the others, and on a long steady descent, it would get hot and fail.
But on a pickup with only 4 brakes a hydraulic brake system (vs the air system on big trucks), the liklihood of brake imbalance is very low in my opinion, and thus it's not hurting anything to ride the brakes for longer periods of time at slowers speeds.
It's a good idea, imo, though to still "snub" every 15 seconds or so (not the 2-3 sec like the big trucks), just to re-seat the pads in the housings and such. Just don't let your rig get a head of steam going.
So, go down slowly, ride the brakes for 15-20 second or so (maintain steady slow speed), then "snub" to a speed that's 5mph slower. Then, foot off the brakes and let the rig gain back that 5mph and go back to riding the brakes for another 15-20 seconds.
Wash, rinse, repeat and you'll be safely down the hill in only 3 times the amount of time it took to climb it!
JMO
Think it through. Your brakes are converting kinetic energy (energy of movement) into thermal energy (heat).
So you have two concerns with your brakes-- the amount of heat they can hold (thermal capacity) and the rate at which they can shed heat. The problem is that the better you make one, the worse the other gets. For example, big beefy cast iron rotors will hold a lot of heat, but that's also precisely why they don't cool that fast.
Descending slowly helps for two reasons. First, it reduced the heat the brakes see because there's less energy for them to convert to heat. A truck/trailer combo has FOUR TIMES more energy when you double the speed. Thus, if you cut the speed in half, the workload on your brakes goes down by 75%!
Secondly, the slower speed gives a lot more time for the brakes to shed their heat to the surrounding atmosphere.
Now the question becomes: is it better to just ride the brakes all the way down, nice and easy-- or should you "snub brake" like you see all the big rigs doing down the hill.
Well, how confident are you that your braking system is balanced? On big rigs, it's highly doubtful that every air valve is operating the same, and the likelihood of perfect synchronization of 18 separate brake cylinders is pretty slight. This is why they "snub brake" because if the imbalance-- otherwise it's likely that one wheel is doing more braking than the others, and on a long steady descent, it would get hot and fail.
But on a pickup with only 4 brakes a hydraulic brake system (vs the air system on big trucks), the liklihood of brake imbalance is very low in my opinion, and thus it's not hurting anything to ride the brakes for longer periods of time at slowers speeds.
It's a good idea, imo, though to still "snub" every 15 seconds or so (not the 2-3 sec like the big trucks), just to re-seat the pads in the housings and such. Just don't let your rig get a head of steam going.
So, go down slowly, ride the brakes for 15-20 second or so (maintain steady slow speed), then "snub" to a speed that's 5mph slower. Then, foot off the brakes and let the rig gain back that 5mph and go back to riding the brakes for another 15-20 seconds.
Wash, rinse, repeat and you'll be safely down the hill in only 3 times the amount of time it took to climb it!
JMO
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 500
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From: conroe tx
i believe he was refering to exhaust brake when he said e-brake
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 630
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From: Az
The big thing with mountain grades are the turns. Most turns in mountains are limited to 55 max and 25 alot of the times. This is where you are gonna bite it if you're fast. Ex-brake or not, it's the speed (energy) that gets you out of shape. Start SLOW and stay off the pedal. Like said above, better to keep the brakes available than used... like an ace in the hole..
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Disputanta, Virginia
I just made a pretty good haul from OH to NC pulling a pretty heavy load. I did something similar to what Hohn wrote about. I would scrub off a little more the 5 mph and then let it build back up and repeat.
The electric trailer brake worked well, so there wasn't much effort to keep a safe speed.
I have pics. in my gallery of the load of logs I hauled.
The electric trailer brake worked well, so there wasn't much effort to keep a safe speed.
I have pics. in my gallery of the load of logs I hauled.
Ain't OH an awful long way to go for firewood?
When my 47RE was slam stock, I found that topping the grade at the speed I wanted to descend, which was normally 10-15mph under the speed limit, at which time I would set the cruise control for that speed. This kept the TC from unlocking when I started downhill. I used the trailer brakes to scrub off speed when it crept 5-8mph over the CC. It seemed to work well for me at the time. After upgrading the tranny and installing a TC lock-up switch, I select the gear and speed for descent, lock the convertor and use both the truck and trailer brakes to do the same thing. So far it works real well in the mountains I've pulled the 5er around on the east coast and I-40 over Black Mountain. 5er is only around 10K.
I still would like to have an exhuast brake one day.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 149
Likes: 1
From: So. Cal. USA
Who would use an emergency brake while driving? I am startin to worry about you guyz.. 
http://www.jakebrake.com/news/archiv...es/sep1998.php
Chapter President
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 1
From: Rural Hall, NC
Uhmm,,,,, Mike,,,,,
Ain't OH an awful long way to go for firewood?
When my 47RE was slam stock, I found that topping the grade at the speed I wanted to descend, which was normally 10-15mph under the speed limit, at which time I would set the cruise control for that speed. This kept the TC from unlocking when I started downhill. I used the trailer brakes to scrub off speed when it crept 5-8mph over the CC. It seemed to work well for me at the time. After upgrading the tranny and installing a TC lock-up switch, I select the gear and speed for descent, lock the convertor and use both the truck and trailer brakes to do the same thing. So far it works real well in the mountains I've pulled the 5er around on the east coast and I-40 over Black Mountain. 5er is only around 10K.
I still would like to have an exhuast brake one day.
Ain't OH an awful long way to go for firewood?
When my 47RE was slam stock, I found that topping the grade at the speed I wanted to descend, which was normally 10-15mph under the speed limit, at which time I would set the cruise control for that speed. This kept the TC from unlocking when I started downhill. I used the trailer brakes to scrub off speed when it crept 5-8mph over the CC. It seemed to work well for me at the time. After upgrading the tranny and installing a TC lock-up switch, I select the gear and speed for descent, lock the convertor and use both the truck and trailer brakes to do the same thing. So far it works real well in the mountains I've pulled the 5er around on the east coast and I-40 over Black Mountain. 5er is only around 10K.
I still would like to have an exhuast brake one day.
I went up to visit my brother who had just taken down a huge silver Maple, so I figured why not haul some back. I'll admit it was an easy excuse to use my truck for something other than drag racing...
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 149
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From: So. Cal. USA
Bottom line: If you tow heavy, you need to use an EXHAUST brake as much as possible, and keep your speed down by using low gears. If you have to tap your service brakes a lot, you're in too high of a gear.
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From: Claxton, GA
Thanks guys. I just keep my speed down and all went well for me. Needless the say the 05' Ford 6.0 dually didn't fair to well. It went boommmmmmmm after 2 clouds of smoke. Oops!!!!!! Long story I will start another thread.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Alameda, CA
I just came back from Yosemite. 6% grade in several places. 2nd gear in auto going up 1st gear coming down. Very cautiously kept speed to below 20 mph. I used the trailer brakes manually by using slide switch and some with truck and trailer together. No problems used turnouts whenever traffic built up. I want to install an exhaust brake so I don't have to go so slow. What do you guys recommend as far as ease of installation and reliability?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 149
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From: So. Cal. USA
If I was starting off new again I would consider avoiding the "turbo mounted" style, unless you're sure you will be happy with a 35 sized turbo (like stock, or a 35/40 hybrid). They cut your options down. A lot of people are going with the inline style under the truck so that they can use any turbo setup they go down the "slippery slope" to.
The Downside to having the inline type (under the truck) is if you live in areas of salty roads during winter, lots of debris, etc. That is hard on the unit being located down there.
If you do go to the turbo mount, Banks does have the large housing so they probably do flow better then say my BD, or a Pacbrake (which both have given good results except the pac's seem to be known for "sticking" closed sometimes if you dont keep them maintained). My BD has been in there for 6 yrs and has not malfunctioned once. I give it a little silicone spray on the moving parts about once a year. It may give slightly better braking at lower RPMs due to its design. But im limited to a hybrid turbo if I want to keep it (which I do). It works very well and has taken most "concern" out of going down the long downgrades "heavy". The main thing is it saves your service brakes for when you really need them, like stopping at the bottom of a hill, or avoiding problems, whatever. Without the exhaust brake, your service brakes are running hot (and wearing) all the way down the hill, so if you do need to make a hard stop, they are already partially faded/hot and they take a real beating in that case.
Was expensive at the time of purchase, but think it was one of the best accessories purchased in the long run. You get used to using it for daily driving and it has added LOTS of life to the brakes. My friend has the Banks turbo mount and you can see that it flows better. It also has an automatic "warm up" feature, and integrates with his auto trans better, so I would at least look at them for your application.
Haven't really been looking at them lately, so not sure what is available out there now that is "new & improved". There may be some better designed ones available now.. Just do the homework before you fork out the "big bucks" for one. They're not cheap, and once they are in, its kind of a hassle to make changes. But you do learn to love them.
The Downside to having the inline type (under the truck) is if you live in areas of salty roads during winter, lots of debris, etc. That is hard on the unit being located down there.
If you do go to the turbo mount, Banks does have the large housing so they probably do flow better then say my BD, or a Pacbrake (which both have given good results except the pac's seem to be known for "sticking" closed sometimes if you dont keep them maintained). My BD has been in there for 6 yrs and has not malfunctioned once. I give it a little silicone spray on the moving parts about once a year. It may give slightly better braking at lower RPMs due to its design. But im limited to a hybrid turbo if I want to keep it (which I do). It works very well and has taken most "concern" out of going down the long downgrades "heavy". The main thing is it saves your service brakes for when you really need them, like stopping at the bottom of a hill, or avoiding problems, whatever. Without the exhaust brake, your service brakes are running hot (and wearing) all the way down the hill, so if you do need to make a hard stop, they are already partially faded/hot and they take a real beating in that case.
Was expensive at the time of purchase, but think it was one of the best accessories purchased in the long run. You get used to using it for daily driving and it has added LOTS of life to the brakes. My friend has the Banks turbo mount and you can see that it flows better. It also has an automatic "warm up" feature, and integrates with his auto trans better, so I would at least look at them for your application.
Haven't really been looking at them lately, so not sure what is available out there now that is "new & improved". There may be some better designed ones available now.. Just do the homework before you fork out the "big bucks" for one. They're not cheap, and once they are in, its kind of a hassle to make changes. But you do learn to love them.
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Check out the new Pac Brake PXRB. It is an awesome brake, slows very well at low RPM's and you also get a small air compressor that will fill tires and smaller chores. Price is pretty good and I think you can buy them here off this site. I have a heavy 5er and it works so really well. I pulled my trailer 2x before putting one on my truck (already had it, but just got back from deployment so I didn't put it on right away). It made pulling the trailer a great experience. Hardly ever have to touch the brakes if I keep my eyes up and plan where I need to slow down. Scotty
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From: South Bay Area, CA
I don't think the PXRB is available for the pre-common rail trucks.
I woulda purchased a BD, but got a helluva deal on a Banks (to my door w/ Banks monster exhaust for <$1K). The BD is supposed to have the most retarding horsepower at lower rpm's. They all pretty much have the same retarding hp at higher rpm's.
Very nice option to have if you run heavy. I'm running about 22K with the boat in tow. The Grapevine was no problem running 4th gear with exhaust brake. An rare/occassional snub was all that was required and never used the trailer brakes.
I woulda purchased a BD, but got a helluva deal on a Banks (to my door w/ Banks monster exhaust for <$1K). The BD is supposed to have the most retarding horsepower at lower rpm's. They all pretty much have the same retarding hp at higher rpm's.
Very nice option to have if you run heavy. I'm running about 22K with the boat in tow. The Grapevine was no problem running 4th gear with exhaust brake. An rare/occassional snub was all that was required and never used the trailer brakes.
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