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Gooseneck vs. Kingpin

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Old 07-02-2005, 01:57 PM
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With most goose neck trailers that is true, not much difference on the highway. The real difference is something that you do not want to experience. A top heavy and the longer trailers cause the front of the trailer to lay over bad on a sudden lane change. In other words the goosneck can flip you if you make a sudden direction change with a heavy top load on the gooseneck.

The fifthwheel is designed so that the truck and trailer can articulate only in the horozontal level, so the truck and trailer stays locked together in a curve. There are times when that creates great stress, like backing into a inclined driveway with a heavy load, where the truck gets at a near 90 degree angle. In the oilfields they use a slightly different method that would also work with lighter ezuipment, they mount the fifthwheel on the trailer upside down. That allows only the kingpin on the truck and eliminates the bind above mentioned.

Tired of loaning your trailers, do the upsidedown fifth wheel. No one will be set up to pull it.

And I wanted to mention, the first thing you do after hooking up is check the kingpin latch, most of the pickup truck setups are junk in my estimation. There are good ones out there though like a 10 inch diameter 30k plate. Some hotshots use this one. I have always been partial to the Fontain kingpin lock setup. A casual glance will determine that the bar is across the kingpin.
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Old 07-03-2005, 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by sherman
There is no difference in forward /backward motion or side to side motion between the gooseneck to a 5th wl,if you are experiencing a difference then you have a mechanical problem with your setup.


Thanks Sherman, You tell me there is no differance between the 5th and goose and then I must have mechanical problems! Then you tell everyone you had your 5th come apart, who has the mechanical problems? Maybe thats why you can't feel the differance!
Yes at 70 mph on a smooth highway you can't tell much differance, but take them 50 mph down a bumpy country road! The truck and 5th will be connected more solid, less side to side movement and truck and trailer will move together. This will feel lot more stable and controllable.
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Old 07-04-2005, 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by RickCJ
The truck and 5th will be connected more solid, less side to side movement and truck and trailer will move together. This will feel lot more stable and controllable.
Maybe I haven't pulled enough trailers , but there has to be play and some movement in either set-up or you'd never be able to turn either one. Maybe it's just me, but I've pulled lots of both types and neither set-up has felt more "stable" than the other. I do however prefer a gooseneck trailer - greater articulation. Who would "want" their truck and trailer to move together in a sideways manner? All that calls for is breaking traction and twisting stress on the truck frame. In fact there are more fifth wheel hitches being manufactured now that have a side-to-side slide built in to alleviate these problems.

I don't like where this thread is going.

Kerry
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Old 07-04-2005, 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Festus
Maybe I haven't pulled enough trailers , but there has to be play and some movement in either set-up or you'd never be able to turn either one. Maybe it's just me, but I've pulled lots of both types and neither set-up has felt more "stable" than the other. I do however prefer a gooseneck trailer - greater articulation. Who would "want" their truck and trailer to move together in a sideways manner? All that calls for is breaking traction and twisting stress on the truck frame. In fact there are more fifth wheel hitches being manufactured now that have a side-to-side slide built in to alleviate these problems.

I don't like where this thread is going.

Kerry
You said that, no one else did And you are right, if you have side to side pivot on the fifth wheel, there is no difference.

The purpose of a fifth wheel is to allow turning without allowing the trailer to sway and twist around on the hitch.

The only problems with a fifth wheel is people who do not understand the way it needs to work to be safer and positive on the road. How many million trucks are there out there with fifth wheel hitches for a trailer. Only the Army uses a hitch with a side pivot for going off into the field and they have locks to block it out for the road.

"I don't like where this thread is going." oh well....
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Old 07-04-2005, 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
Only the Army uses a hitch with a side pivot for going off into the field and they have locks to block it out for the road.

Sorry, not "only" the Army use these pivot hitches. They have been used up here for as long as I can remember on the back of lead trailers on 7 axle (B-train) and 8-axle (Super B) configurations. We never locked them out - it defeats their purpose. These are OTR transport trailers. There are a number of manufacturers out there building them for pickups and RV's now too. For example: Here Note:"Built in side-to-side rocker design for smooth trailering". This one is a cheaper design too. "Innovative new side-tilt design reduces vehicle frame stress". Here's another link - at the end of the third paragraph they talk about having side-to-side articulation also.

Hauli_in_Dixie Quote: "The fifthwheel is designed so that the truck and trailer can articulate only in the horozontal level, so the truck and trailer stays locked together in a curve." Just one of the above links discredits this whole entire theory.

There are far more sophisticated designs out there that allow up to 6" of side-to-side articulation. So where's is this so called "allow turning without allowing the trailer to sway and twist around on the hitch" that you were talking about? They are starting to build them this way now to allow for the benefits they've seen from the other style when it comes to having the truck and trailer on separate proportions of uneven ground where one unit is more level than the other. Both for towing and hooking up benefits.

Oh, btw, yep, I've been pullin' fifth wheels and goosenecks on the farm since I was 14, drove truck in the oilfield, and OTR. I think I may have a bit of experience.

I have yet to have a gooseneck trailer "sway" on the highway. If it does, it isn't hooked up right.
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Old 07-04-2005, 06:55 PM
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Why can't you guys understand there is a differance?? A gooseneck is for articulation! A 5th is better for control and ride!

Just because you've been OTR for years doesn't mean you know a thing! How many of your rigs had a gooseneck???

The side to side rocker is used for hooking up and un hooking, ever been offcamber a little and tried to unhook your 5th? Then lock them out when you hit the highway.

If he's pulling a 53' 21k trailer a heavy duty 5th is the best way to go!
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by RickCJ
Why can't you guys understand there is a differance?? A gooseneck is for articulation! A 5th is better for control and ride!

Just because you've been OTR for years doesn't mean you know a thing! How many of your rigs had a gooseneck???

The side to side rocker is used for hooking up and un hooking, ever been offcamber a little and tried to unhook your 5th? Then lock them out when you hit the highway.

If he's pulling a 53' 21k trailer a heavy duty 5th is the best way to go!

You may wish to do some research too. Most are built without any lockouts - so it's impossible to lock them out. Yep, there is a difference - just clearing up the misconceptions.
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:20 PM
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I guess if you get a cheaper 5th wheel and it doesn't have lockouts, You won't get the benefits of a 5th then! The side to side is just to make it easier to hook and unhook.
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:00 AM
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Well I could show you a picture of a gooseneck laid over the pickup bed where he made a turn and the trailer went over onto the truck. I can just see side to side articulation on a tanker, they are bad enough with a standard fifth wheel. Bet tanker yanker can attest to that, bet he has seen the trailer tandums lift on a sharp manover, with the side to side it would go over. I would guess that you get into some situations where you are that same as the army, pulling the locks would be an advantage. On the highway, side to side articulation is a killer. A 53 foot flatbed with a couple of rolls of steel would be absolutely dangerious. I don't believe that I have ever seen a fifth wheel with side to side on a highway truck. Oil field, yes, but not on the highway. You need to watch a wedge goosneck in the mirror on a curvy road, there is only one way to load them.
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:49 PM
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Man are some folks bull headed.

"....a hitch head that pivots and tilts allows the truck and fifth wheel to respond independent of one another when irregular road surface conditions are experienced. Stress on both the truck and fifth wheel chassis is mitigated because the truck is not trying to twist the chassis of the fifth wheel and vise versa. This also contributes to a smoother ride for the occupants and less fatigue for the driver."

As found in this article.

I don't believe that I have ever seen a fifth wheel with side to side on a highway truck.
If you would read more closely, I never said the side articulating hitch was on the tractor. It was in between the trailers on 7 and 8 axles. Probably a trailer configuration you've never seen before as far as I am aware, they're only allowed up here. I know we couldn't bring B-trains South of the border unless laws have changed now.
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Festus
Man are some folks bull headed.

"....a hitch head that pivots and tilts allows the truck and fifth wheel to respond independent of one another when irregular road surface conditions are experienced. Stress on both the truck and fifth wheel chassis is mitigated because the truck is not trying to twist the chassis of the fifth wheel and vise versa. This also contributes to a smoother ride for the occupants and less fatigue for the driver."

As found in this article.

If you would read more closely, I never said the side articulating hitch was on the tractor. It was in between the trailers on 7 and 8 axles. Probably a trailer configuration you've never seen before as far as I am aware, they're only allowed up here.
"Bullheaded" thanks, been told that before. Better than believing whatever writer comes along. I have enough miles on semi rigs to have an experienced opinion. Do what you want. Want to be safe, lock em down on the highway.

Also you don't live on Mars, I have not been to Mars, but I have been where you are. That is a specialized fifth wheel for a completely different purpose. The weight of one trailer twisting against the weight of another would certainly break things, we are talking about a top heavy trailer attached to a truck. What do they call doubles and others that do pivot? Wigglewagons, cause that wiggle going down the road. Sway like that on the back of a heavy trailer can not cause the weight to steer the truck, sway like that on the back of the truck will cause the trailer to steer the truck.

Possibly you could read this again, "more closely," "allows the truck and fifth wheel to respond independent of one another when irregular road surface conditions are experienced" The part of that statement that deals with Irregular road surface. Freeways don't have that. Have you seen a freeway? It's like one of your two lane concrete roads, only more lanes. Same as your route 2 going to Calgary. You might take a ride down there to experience it, nice road. Yeah you can figure it out. The most irregular pavement that my truck sees is the driveway pulling out of Waffle House. Drove 36 foot dumpers, half of the time off road, still had a locked fifth wheel.

A pivoting hitch is fully usable, a fifth wheel that does not pivot is much safer from turning over and controlling sway. As I said, that is why the Army has lockouts on them for the highway and a good quality RV fifth wheel will also.

Bull headed indeed sounds like you have a touch of that yourself.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:28 AM
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Drag um both all the time. Prefer the 5th wheel for the road work I do. If I wanted to get kinky. . .I'd use the appropriate hitch. I feel alot more "******'n'jerk when loaded with a stack of gooses. Maybe just due to the trailer's I've hauled. I find the 5th wheel faster & easier to hook by myself. Goose used to be a hole in one, so to speak. I'm stretched with a sleeper can't really see to hook anything. Now both types are one and the same to me. . .I carry a 5th wheel to GN converter. That way both ride on my EasyRider Air Ride hitch base. But like I say, I rarely even get on a dirt road let alone "off road". Think this might be the first time I've heard of a properly hooked 5th wheel letting go. That's scary. . .almost as scary as when my right rear axle left the truck. . .third time. I could rekindle the arguement by saying anything over the axle is better than a tag, then the Hensley boy's could join in. Be Safe.



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Old 07-14-2005, 01:14 PM
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Well put Steve.
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:18 PM
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Festus is wrong. Haulin in Dixie is right.

Hoss has spoken.

The end.

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Old 07-14-2005, 05:07 PM
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This is a 7 Axle configuration. The lead trailer alone is as long as a little 36 foot dumper Tonka Toy.

When I was still driving for this company, these folks built all the 7and 8 axle trailers and still do. The fifth wheel on the bridge (area between the trailers) that the pup (rear trailer) hooks to is made by Holland and looks like this. The 80+ trailers that they had didn't come with the optional locks. The reason is that by allowing the springs, inside the Kompensator to work, on any road surface, highway or otherwise, caused less transfer of torsional force through the lead trailer to the tractor. Better ride and easier steering. The centre of gravity stays centralized all the time no matter what position on this design.

Although I have to research who, there is a company that builds a very similar design for pickups to use with RV fifth wheel trailers.
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Because the oscillation sideways works by a cradle from the underside and not a centre pin sideways pivot, by virtue of design, the springs inside the side-to-side oscillator do control sway, keeps the centre of gravity in the same position as it works because of the cradle design so no worry of top heavy roll over in that respect, and makes for a more confortable ride on the highway by minimizing torsional forces transferred to the pickup frame.

Have you seen a freeway?
Yep Haulin, I have. Hauled and picked up loads in places such as DFW, Houston, Chicago, Portland, Salt Lake City, and Los Angeles numerous times each. Just to name a few for the South. Been to Anchorage more times than Carter had liver pills. And guess you could say, backed up more miles than most yuppie folks have driven in forward gears.
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