wingit

One way or another, you always pay,
I see the E-brake destroying the 2 back tires taking all the scuffing.
I wonder what the ideal tire presure would be towing 12k.
An over inflated tire by 5 lbs could scuff faster, so 5 or 10 under might help with a better footprint.
I'm talking 265/17 E rated. They call for 80 psi, I was running 83 for a firm no sway ride.
I can imagin towing and e-braking in mountains with over-inflated by 5 lbs. "no rears in 5k"
As it is, I would destroy these rear F-Stones in 9k miles flat landing .
Anyone know about the tire pressure thing ?

Homestead

I'm lost in the reasoning that an exhaust brake will wear out your rear tires, am I missing something?

I have over a 100,000 kms on my existing tires right now and the truck tows all the time upwards and beyond 10,000 lbs. Wear is normal front to back. My tires are aired to 80 psi all the time.

I'm not understanding something here, sorry.

Jeff

alboy

I tow a 14600 lb fiver all over the mnts of B.c ,4 trips to AZ .I,M on my 3rd set of fiver brakes,magnets wore out, so 90.00 PER WHEEL to replace.The brake dealer says i have the brakes set up to aggressive,could be,but they will sure pull you down in a hurry.That being said ,an exhaust brake is going on this year,it won,t take long to pay for it self,plus getting away from the issues of R/R ING brakes.

wingit

A strong head wind or hills makes the driving tires overcome that resistance.
On the other side of the coin, A tail wind downhill E-braking against the back tires scuffs the rubber off.
Speed added to either has a multifying effect.
My tire dealer friend who pulls a 15k 5ver with a Dually said the rubber goes
fast 75 mph and higher. My trip was against a 30+ mph wind at 70+ mph.
5/32 of rubber gone in 3500 miles. My friend said thats about right. He didnt sell me the tires.
Just my 2 cents but heavy e-baking on 2 tires verses 8 service brakes ?
The cost per mile of an E-brake + rear tires could exceed the brake pad cost.
Im buying the whole 8k brake assy plate,pads,magnets, assembled for 55.00.
However if you like the noise ? that's your call.
Do you ride a Hardly too ?

FiverBob

Whoa - - I guess I am confused too. How can increasing your braking horsepower to about 175 (compared to about 75 without the ebrake) cause your rear tires to disappear? Compare that to 300 hp on the take off, yet my rear tires wear at the same rate as the front. I am towing 16,000 pounds of fiver, been all over the US and Canada and Mexico with the rig, use the ebrake a lot while towing and even running solo and ran my first tires to 60,000 before replacing (only because of cracking and splitting, not wear). I love the mountains, including the 12% grades in Newfoundland. I have never replaced brakes on either the fiver or the truck and now have 75,000 on the truck. If anything, my front tires may wear a little faster than the rear, mostly from rounding. When you hit the ebrake, it is not like you are slamming on the rear brakes and sliding tires. It feels just like downshifting one gear or so and that certainly is not going to wear out my back tires. Me thinks you have something else going on.

Bob

wingit

OK Im reaching here, but why did the rubber go this fast ?
Overcoming resistance gaining speed or reducing against the 2 back tires is all I can guess.
The front have almost no wear.
When I say scuff, Im thinking a very small amount, thousand's of an inch,
not what you can feel or hear. The tire has to wear for these reasons.
If you dont see it on yours, maybe your not measuring it when rotated the first time.
I operate a Tool & Die shop 30 years making aftermarket alignment parts,truck parts,
so im trying to identify measurable test results.
A few days ago I walked past my truck with 6 week old tires, and being a dimension guy,
I say, oh oh, the rear tires are wearing faster than the front,
and that's apparent just walking past ? thats allot of rubber..
Firestone has no opinion but normal wear.
What would you think ? I used a laser temp guage on bearing area's, tire side walls,
as I'm comparing an expensive greese in the trailer.
At 70 the trailer bearings stayed at 87f and tire side walls all the same 97f. PU & Trailor, all LR-E tires.
But Im talking about my 3/4 desiel PU. Rear tires have to wear more from these effects, how much ?
who cares if its only a little, but Im at a loss.
thanks for trying to help
happy day

P Kennedy

wingit based on your numbers and theory my truck which has 22,000 km (16.000 miles) which never leaves the yard with a trailer lighter than 13600 lbs should have no tires left on it. "Scuffing" with a dually will occur when turning but even with rolling resistance and extra heavy weight on the tires you are claiming excessive wear. Many factors come in to play here. Speed, heat, power to the drives, number of turns- tight, slow , fast, increased power, grades and gravel. Are your tires stock OEM units which wear faster than quality tires with softer compounds. Your E-brake theory may cause additional wear but many of us here have dragged big weight up and down big hills through curvy roads without the wear you claim. Most important thought here would be E-brake vs No E-brake vs brake wear vs life expectancy of the driver with a load and hot brakes. Oh ya lets add the family in here driving through the mountains on vacation with limited experience hauling any load. Do you absolutely need one? No but I'll choose to wear tires a little faster if need be than brakes and keep them cool and abundant for those times when I really need them darn skidders. Take a look at the other replies, your test subject and parameters seem to be a little loose for accurate results in comparison to the rest of the gang.

wingit

quote"wingit based on your numbers and theory my truck which has 22,000 km (16.000 miles) which never leaves the yard with a trailer lighter than 13600 lbs should have no tires left on it.)

Yes, and 2 more 3200 mile trips to Texas and mine are gone.. in 10k miles,265/70R17 transforce AT
Wow, thats encouraging you can get that tire life towing heavy.
Like I said, the wear is from one trip, flat landing Mn. to Texas. I'm new at heavy loads on long trips,
the temp test was a side note for other reasons, but covers issues like proper tire pressure and braking.The OEM Michelin tires were replaced at 50k miles with 6/32 remaining. Some short trips heavy loads.I lost 5/32 on these back F-Stones with 4000 miles now..

Michelins last longer than Firestones, but this much ? Maybe the tires are bad.
As I said ,Im reaching, its just my 2 cents, Its a guess,
I don't see a test to confirm the dimensional influence on scuffing,
And yes tire compound too, I used to make ply guide machines for tire Mfg. industry.
Having to deal with engineers from the company, I saw the basics of compound choices.
When I land my plane too fast, push my 955 cat too hard , turn the TH too tight,
Haul my tractor with 3 axles , run the wheeler on paved roads,
loading the contact point increases wear.
I have made parts for many industries ,Aircraft ,eyeglass mfg. Cat,
and we still make many all the aftermarket alignment parts you see
on the screen of major alignment machines. So I wonder whats going on..
Anyone on air pressure ? What are you using ? the tire specs ? 80 on LR E ?
more air =less footprint /better milage/more scuffing.
Like a dually with no load and the low speed tourque limiter turned off.
there is an example of a problem .
Thanks for trying,

PS, I can see these have saved allot of lives,brakes and rigs.
No doubt I would like one if we get back to heavy hauling more often.

Scotty

I hauled RV's for a few yrs and ran with an exhaust brake. Steering the truck can and will rub more rubber off then other dynamics on a vehicle.
My last set of General Ameritracs [many people claim they are junk tires] went for 102,000 miles and had not yet reached the wear bars. I only rotated them once. Many trips through the mtns. Mostly all pavement or concrete but I still encountered places like dealer lots where maneuvering around created some scrubbing of the duals and steer tires at slow speeds that would grind them into the dirt.
All tires wear out. However, from my experience, the e-brake and combination I have gives me the best longevity. Of the 25/26 Rams I have ran, only 3 did not have an e-brake and those ones had brake work far more often then the ones with the e-brake.
For example, this truck I have now has just over 142,000 miles on the odometer. The factory brakes are still at 65% front and 75% rear. I have a friend of mine that had original brakes on his 06 3500 for 600,000 kilometers. He hauls RV's and uses his e brake as well as the trailer brakes for the majority of his stopping.

Getting back to the Ameritracs. I once swore by the Michelin LTX and was happy to see 60K miles from them. I got convinced to stray from them and try the TOYO M-55. Super long wearing but extremely hard compound...dangerous on icy roads and loud tires. I went 122,000 miles on that set and had lots left in them but sold the truck.
The Ameritracs I use are not the TR version...those for some reason wear fast. The basic AS Ameritrac nets me over 100K miles and I can buy them from Tirerack for 137 a piece which beats the close to 300 each up here in Canada.

Scotty

Russ Roth

I have no idea if this would be related to these rigs but seems to me it would. I have been around and driven class 8 rigs off and on for years with Jakes and never once have I heard it mentioned using jakes cause increased tire wear.

I have heard other things truck owners didn't like about having them but almost every company I know has and uses them. Most drivers refuse to run without them. I know I would certainly run downhill slower than I do and I am pretty conservative since I lost my service brakes once. A Jake makes all the difference in the world, IMHO. I came across Satus pass today with an A train @ 103,560 lbs and wouldn't want to run it without one.

I do have one for my Ram but have not had time to install it yet but don't tow in very hilly country right now.

C Schomer

I wouldn't give mine up now that I have one but I also lived in Co. for 33 yrs without one. When you come thru the Eisenhower tunnel make sure you get down to a gear that will hold you without needing any brakes before you start OOOOing and AAAAWWing at the spectacular scenery cuz it gets steeper, real fast! Then when it gets steeper, gear down more right away til you only need very minimal and occasional brakes cuz it's a long way to the bottom and you don't want to need to use one of those runaway ramp. BTW, runaway loaded semis have been known to hit 130 mph down that hill. Craig

Colo_River_Ram

I missed a runaway truck ramp user by about 5 minutes the last trip over that hump..the dust was still in the air, gravel everywhere and one shaky truck driver walking down the ramp (with the assistance of two by-standers)..

E-Brakes are great they save the service brakes for when they are really needed.. The noise is minimal if you leave the cat and muffler on the truck, I am still in aw over the scuffing comment with the 300 hp take-off and only 170 hp slow-down.. Sorry but I don't buy that..

I have read of 150K+ on the service brakes by using the e-brake / that saves you money.. Another thing about the E-Brake that has not been mentioned on this thread is when it is -40 outside 5 minutes or so with the E-Brake and your hi-idle on you have a warm cab, so add warm up fuel savings to the equation..

All brands of E-brakes has had problems mentioned on this site, I went with the Jacobs brand on the 05 as it gets -40 here in the winter and I know what happens to compressors / compressed air at that temp.. Besides the Jake-Brake is integrated into the trucks ECM. With the CC set as you top over a hill it gradually brings on the brake to slow you down to your pre-set speed.. so add speeding ticket savings to the equation as well

So I say yes you need an E-brake..

Wyoming Geezer

One trip into Steamboat Springs, CO, being pushed by a 30' 5th wheel without EB was enough. Got Jake from Cummins, never had any more problems. If you do the Rockies, safer trip with EB, save the wheel brakes for stops.