do i really need a cdl?
07-30-2006, 07:36 AM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Owensboro KY
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The liability issue is an excellent point . You have more to worry about with attorneys than law enforcement where accidents are involved . Exceed your truck's GTW and you could lose your shirt eve if the other party appeared to be at fault . Yeah , I know Dodge doesn't stamp the GVW on the door BUT they do post it on their website and there is a recommended GVW for each vehicle as equipped . We read all these posts 'Can my truck pull this ? " Sure it can , but is it worth the risk ? Don't expect having an LLC to protect you . If you were a driver for a company and knowingly overloaded your truck you could be found personally negligent if involved in an accident and be sued as well as the company being sued . Same thing driving your own truck . An LLC is only worthwhile if you run more than one truck and want your personal assets to be protected if one of your other drivers if found negligent . Make sure your insurance company is kept informed of exactly what you are doing . I know of a contractor that switched companies without notifying the insurance company then wrecked the truck and had the insurance company refuse to pay . In most cases bobtail insurance is canceled 3 to 5 days after terminating a lease with a carrier unless the insurance carrier is notified of a new lease . I saw one poster say they were covered by State Farm . No , they weren't . I know State Farm doesn't cover commercial trucks .
07-30-2006, 08:16 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: WV
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you Rick, that is the point I was trying to make. I have had a CDL since they were required, class A, hazmat etc. but I am no truck driver, it is only a job requirement. I am just an old power lineman. We drive line trucks licensed for 44k and pull trailers most of which are rated less than 20k. But our transportation dept. (our garage) makes sure that the driver has the ultimate responsibility of being legal to operate. You can license a vehicle in this state with any amount of weight you are willing to pay for, but certainly does not make it legal or safe. I just wanted to bring up the liability aspect of this heavy hauling for some of these guys to think about before they get into a situation and lose everything they own and maybe more. If they want to see how much they can pull they should take em to the fairgrounds and hook on to the sled, Ilike to watch them........ 
07-30-2006, 07:18 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Killeen, Tx
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by wv smoker
If you are found to be overweight in this situation you are usually going to pay and your insurance company is not obligated to...
07-30-2006, 09:27 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless its specifically stated in the policy, insurance will cover negligence. It happens everyday in dui accidents. I have not seen any policy written that says anything about non coverage due to weight. It wouldn t surprise me at all if a commercial policy is very very well covered regarding weight issues.
One thing that we probably would have heard about in the news would be weight issues regarding suv's and tire blow outs and roll overs. Passenger vans, suberbans etc roll over freq due to over weight situations in private use but has never been deemed a coverage issue noted.
If negligence was not coverable there would be a lot of people losing everything because of it. Insurance companies would immediately move to all negligence, not just weight, but if your at fault for a failure to stop your negligent and they wouldn t cover it, or you run on non oem tires, your negligent so we wont cover your situation.
Im licenced for over 26k. Im recognizable as a knowledgable hauler, safty chains, good mirrors, truck in good shape, trailer in good shape, reflective tape, lights, good tires etc.....and never been pulled over. I also generally run in the 20k gcvw area so I dont run over weight. I also dont exceed axle weights or tire weights. Having a weight slip on a private carrier I would assume helps in the event of a stop.
One thing that we probably would have heard about in the news would be weight issues regarding suv's and tire blow outs and roll overs. Passenger vans, suberbans etc roll over freq due to over weight situations in private use but has never been deemed a coverage issue noted.
If negligence was not coverable there would be a lot of people losing everything because of it. Insurance companies would immediately move to all negligence, not just weight, but if your at fault for a failure to stop your negligent and they wouldn t cover it, or you run on non oem tires, your negligent so we wont cover your situation.
Im licenced for over 26k. Im recognizable as a knowledgable hauler, safty chains, good mirrors, truck in good shape, trailer in good shape, reflective tape, lights, good tires etc.....and never been pulled over. I also generally run in the 20k gcvw area so I dont run over weight. I also dont exceed axle weights or tire weights. Having a weight slip on a private carrier I would assume helps in the event of a stop.
07-31-2006, 11:37 AM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ajpulley
License classes refer to the weight limits. Under federal law, it is up to each state to define this. Your state's statutory law for vehicles and roadways will have the limit pertaining to the 10,000 pounds (as you referenced above) defined; usually it is associated with the class of license a driver must maintain. Generally, it paraphrases as:
Class A license:
Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more,
if the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the towed vehicle or vehicles exceeds 10,000 pounds.
GVWR means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.
Class B license:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, a single vehicle with a
gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating
of 10,000 pounds or less.
These are weights that the trailer is rated for or will reasonably fit if no GVWR is indicated, not that is actually on it at the time.
And guys, Ive gone round with a few of you on this. You only need a CDL, unless your state dictates otherwise, if you are for hire or engaged in business while driving/towing. Title 49 CFR, part 383 reads, "Drivers must hold a CDL if they operate in interstate, intrastate or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle: With a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight (GCVW) of at least 26,001 pounds or; Designed to transport at least 16 passengers including the drivers; or transporting a quantity of hazardous material requiring placarding. Because the CDL is a state-issued license, you should check with appropriate State officials regarding particular license classes and specific exemptions."
Class A license:
Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more,
if the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the towed vehicle or vehicles exceeds 10,000 pounds.
GVWR means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.
Class B license:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, a single vehicle with a
gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating
of 10,000 pounds or less.
These are weights that the trailer is rated for or will reasonably fit if no GVWR is indicated, not that is actually on it at the time.
And guys, Ive gone round with a few of you on this. You only need a CDL, unless your state dictates otherwise, if you are for hire or engaged in business while driving/towing. Title 49 CFR, part 383 reads, "Drivers must hold a CDL if they operate in interstate, intrastate or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle: With a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight (GCVW) of at least 26,001 pounds or; Designed to transport at least 16 passengers including the drivers; or transporting a quantity of hazardous material requiring placarding. Because the CDL is a state-issued license, you should check with appropriate State officials regarding particular license classes and specific exemptions."
07-31-2006, 09:50 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Killeen, Tx
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by hammajamma
Reading directly off the back of my Class B CDL: May operate single vechicle over 26,000 lbs. GVWR . May tow trailer less than 10,001 lbs. GVWR. All lesser vechicles except motorcycles are included in this class. This nmakes me believe if you tow a trailer over 10,001 lbs you need a CDL Class A regardless of the power unit??
07-31-2006, 10:11 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GAmes
Once again, a CDL is for commercial operation. It is possible to get a class A non-commercial license if your state requires it for larger trailers or whatever. I operate commercially with a class C non-commercial license and am legal in every state as long as the total GVWRs of my pick-up (10,500) and the trailer in tow does not exceed 26,000 pounds. I would be required to have a CDL if (and this applies in every state) the trailer GVWR exceeds 10,000 lbs AND the total GVWRs (GCWR) exceeds 26,000. Why is this so difficult to understand?
08-01-2006, 02:36 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've said this before..it varies from state to state. Do not go by what anyone on this board says, go to the DMV. Here in CA, you need a non commecial class A for a privately used trailer over 10K. You need a CDL for a commercially used trailer over 10 K or a single vehicle over 26K. The magic 26K combined gross number does not apply here in CA.
08-01-2006, 03:14 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Killeen, Tx
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by hammajamma
You DO NOT need a CDL to operate commercially,as long as you don't exceed 26,000 lbs.,unless you carry hazmat material.Vechiles under 26,000 lbs. are considered non-commercial regardless of what you do with them other than haul hazmat.
08-01-2006, 09:46 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GAmes
Isn't that what I said?
08-02-2006, 12:08 AM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some states did require (dont know if it changed but I doubt it since its a sorce of revenue) a commercial registration regardless of weight. A pick up hualing wood for business or even lawn maitnence businesses getting ticketed. I personally know of an instance of a hiway patrol writing an elcamino for not having a cdl........while hualing maybe 400 lbs in the bed.
08-02-2006, 02:19 AM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Killeen, Tx
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by hammajamma
Yep. It was. The difference we have is the trailer weight. I'm saying with your 10,500 truck if you tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs. you need a CDL,your contention is you can tow a trailer with GVWR of 15,500 and not need a CDL. I'm basing my contention on my Class B CDL,which says i cannot tow a trailer over 10K. how could a class C license give you more towing rating than a class B CDL?? If you didn't say that, then I'm just conused.LoL
I did say I can tow trailers with a GVWR of 15,500 or less legally. The confusion is the way the CDL requirements are written. You can check any state and the requirements for commercial drivers are the same: A CDL is only required (for commercial purposes) if the trailer's GVWR exceeds 10,000 and the GCWR of truck and trailer exceed 26,000. It is a gray area that transporters have been exploiting for many years. If I pulled into my DMV with my 13,000 lb 5er and asked to test for a CDL they would run me off. You have to test in the type vehicle that the license covers. Every now and then I have to turn down an RV because it's GVWR exceeds 15,500, but not often. However, my rather low GVWR is the main reason I have not really looked very hard at the new 6.7 Cummins because the cab/chassis has a GVWR of 14,000 if I remember right and that would severely limit the trailers I could pull.
08-02-2006, 10:19 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GAmes
I did say I can tow trailers with a GVWR of 15,500 or less legally. The confusion is the way the CDL requirements are written. You can check any state and the requirements for commercial drivers are the same: A CDL is only required (for commercial purposes) if the trailer's GVWR exceeds 10,000 and the GCWR of truck and trailer exceed 26,000. It is a gray area that transporters have been exploiting for many years. If I pulled into my DMV with my 13,000 lb 5er and asked to test for a CDL they would run me off. You have to test in the type vehicle that the license covers. Every now and then I have to turn down an RV because it's GVWR exceeds 15,500, but not often. However, my rather low GVWR is the main reason I have not really looked very hard at the new 6.7 Cummins because the cab/chassis has a GVWR of 14,000 if I remember right and that would severely limit the trailers I could pull.
08-03-2006, 08:20 AM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Killeen, Tx
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by hammajamma
Well at least I wasn't confused.LoL. I doubt that a class C license gives you more towing rating than my Class B. CDL,I'm in Ga. and I know you need a CDL for a trailer over !0 K,unless you are towing farm supplies or livestock.but then I tow about 75K miles per year,have never been stopped or questioned by DOT or State Patrol.I don't think they are really that concerned about dually's and pick-up trucks towing.
This is from http://www.cdl-course.com/exam-ga.html
If I was a computer wiz I would highlight the appropriate paragraph, but I think you can find it.
The Congress of the United States enacted The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 (CMVSA/86) which requires that all of the individual states conduct uniform testing and licensing standards for all commercial drivers. It also established uniform standards for qualification, suspensions, and revocation. It requires that no commercial vehicle operator may possess more than one license. That license MUST BE ISSUED FROM THE DRIVER'S STATE OF LEGAL RESIDENCE. Therefore, if you are a resident of Georgia, you MUST obtain a Georgia CDL. Our Course covers the specific Georgia CDL procedures.
A Commercial Drivers License (CDL) is Required if you drive ANY of the following commercial vehicles for hire ANY place in the United States...
A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
A trailer with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
A vehicle designed to carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver).
A vehicle of ANY size or type which requires hazardous materials placards.
08-03-2006, 08:45 AM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't argue with that, but it still seems odd that a class C license allows you tow more than a Class B CDL,because it states on my license,may tow trailer under 10,001 lbs.Well not to worry, I've never been ask about weight and ever time I go in and out of Florida with a load of horses I have to pull in to the AG> inspection station ,one of my fellow haulers got stopped in Nebraska,driving an F250,with a four horse trailer,he was written up for no logbook,no Dot number , no MC number and no CDL,after he admitted he was being paid to transport the horses. Scared him so bad, he came home sold his trailer and quite hauling.