Bonshawman

TRCM Don't know about VA driver's license requirements, but in Florida Chapter 322.54 states " (2)(a) Any person who drives a motor vehicle in combination have a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more must possess a valid Class A driver's license, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 pounds." So it would seem pretty straight forward that the focus is on RATING and makes no mention of USE, and that if one adds together the GVW RATINGS of the tow vehicle and the towed vehicle, and if that combined RATING exceeds 26,001 pounds AND the towed vehicle rating (alone) exceeds 10,000 pounds, the Class A CDL is required. If one takes my 2005 3500 with a RATING of 12,200 pounds (door jam decal) and my deck over 25' RATING 20,000 pounds (VIN plate GVW stamped) that equals 32,200 pounds, which clearly seems to meet the requirement for the Class A in Florida, so as I stated regardless of whether I hook up the 3500 or the FL70 I still need the Class A.

TRCM

I just went and read the statute from their website. I also found the exact wording that you posted, which conflicts with the highway Safety & Motor Vehicle website. Below is a cut & paste from the HSMV website:

Class A: Commercial motor vehicles - trucks or truck combinations weighing with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 lbs. or more, provided towed vehicle is more than 10,000 lbs.

I do not read this as meaning what you do, but I do see it as confusing and very inaccurate. I mean, why say truck/truck combinations WEIGHING with a gvwr.......actual weight & gvwr are not the same thing, but they seem to treat is as if it is.

Truck or truck combinations with a gvwr NOT gcwr. Your dually DOES NOT have a gvwr of 26,001 lbs or more, it is probably in the low 20,000 lb range.

It also says provided the towed vehicle is greater than 10,000 lbs, not 10k gvwr. So if the trailer actually weighs less, it should not apply...note I said should.

It also starts out with commercial, so if you're not commercial, it may not apply.

If you break it down grammatically, it's actually 2 sentences.

1) it says trucks weighing with a gvwr of 26,001 lbs or more, provided the towed vehicle is more than 10,000 lbs

this is confusing in that it says weighing, which implies actual weight, and actual weight has very little to do with gvwr. it also says the towed vehicle 'weighs', with no mention of the towed vehicles gvwr.

2) it says truck combinations weighing with a gvwr of 26,001 lbs or more, provided the towed vehicle is more than 10,000 lbs

again, this is confusing in that it says weighing, which implies actual weight, and actual weight has very little to do with gvwr. it also says the towed vehicle 'weighs', with no mention of the towed vehicles gvwr, and no mention is made of the combinations gcwr

now, in case #1, you need a cdl period, since the truck is over 26,001 lbs gvwr, so it doesn't matter if you are towing anything or not.

in case #2, it really doesn't matter either, as the total of both is over 26,001 lbs, which is cdl territory

BUT, by using actual trailer weight (again, using thier words literally), you could pull a 30,000 lb gvwr trailer behind a dually, and as long as the trailer is less than 10,000 lbs actual loaded weight, you don't need the cdl, where as all the other states I have looked at go by gvwr, and a 30k gvwr is cdl territory anywhere else.



Some states have some really weird and confusing laws on this, and FL is definitely one of them because of their different wording of the rules depending on where you go to read them.




I found this in a section of the Florida DOT website:

COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE

Commercial motor vehicle – Any self-propelled or towed vehicle used on the public highways in commerce to transport passengers or cargo, if such vehicle:
(a) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 lbs. or more;
(b) Is designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver; or
(c) Is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act, as amended (49 U.S.C. ss. 1801 et seq.). – s. 316.003(66), Fla. Stat

This CLEARLY states that the rules listed are ONLY if used in commerce.....which seems to conflicts with the above requirements.


All I know about the florida rules, is that when I was down there, I went thru the scales and they said I was fine.

My truck is registered in VA for 25,000 lbs gcwr. I was towing a 14,000 gvwr trailer, loaded with 7500 lbs of vehicle & parts, trailer weighs 4400 empty, so the trailer was roughly 12,000 total weight. My 97 weighs roughly 7200 lbs, so I was right around 19,000 lbs total weight. I was not 'in commerce', but my trailer was over 10,000 lbs both in actual weight AND gvwr, and my truck gvwr was only 11,000 lbs.

So why did they say I was good ??? Only thing I can see is the 'not in commerce' if they really mean the other rules.

Haulin_in_Dixie

Two issues here, one is the requirement for a cdl and the other is which class cdl. There are two methods of measuring the Gross Combination Weight Rating. The federal and some states word it as "the gross vehicle weight rating of the towing vehicle added to the weight of the trailer and any load thereon." I believe Florida is one of those. The rest of the states, Georgia and Alabama included word it "the gross vehicle weifght rating of the towing vehicle added to the gross vehicle weight rating of the towed vehicle." These differences will allow you to drive an empty trailer in some states ok with no cdl but not in other states.

Ok, over 26,001 pounds gross combination weight rating, you have to have a cdl license. If the trailer is under 10,000 pounds you need a class B cdl, but if the trailer is over 10,000 pounds you need a class A.

Maybe this is what has been missed.

Haulin_in_Dixie

Oh yeah, in commerce or not in commerce has nothing to do with cdl requirments. Drive a heavy vehicle you have to have a cdl, regardless.


Ahhhhh caught that one...... Except for those states that have a "non commercial" heavy license like California, but regardless you have to have a license to cover the weight.

Bonshawman

Yup...it could be made clearer, and less contradictory, as I've said at length in previous posts.

TRCM

So your saying that because I have a 14k gvwr trailer, I have to have a cdl, period ? Even tho I am under the 26,000 lb limit ?

I disagree, based on the below cut & paste from the FCMSA website:

§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.

(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A) — Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B) — Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

(a)(3) Small Vehicle (Group C) — Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).



I don't meet the requirements for group A since I am below 26,000 lbs.

I don't meet the requirementsd for group C either.

And on group B, the wording says "Any single vehicle.....with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR", and since my dually is not such a vehicle, it does not apply.


Group A is for big rigs, group B is to allow someone whonormally drives a single heavy vehicle over 26,001 lbs to tow a trailer as long as it is below 10k without needing a class A cdl.


This is how 5 different DOT officials have explained it to me, and honestly, that is how it is worded.

If the group B section did not say 'any such vehicle", , but in stead said simply 'any vehicle' (which is how most people read it), then it would mean ANYONE towing a trailer would need a cdl b, even if it was only rated for 100 lbs.

The word SUCH is what changes the rule, and most people don't get this. If the towing vehicle is not 26,001 lbs or more, then the 2nd half of the rule doesn't apply, since the towing vehicle will not be 'any such vehicle'.


According to these rules as they are written, and the explanations provided by DOT officials in 3 states, I don't need a cdl period, as I don't meet the requirements for any of the 3 classes stated.

Haulin_in_Dixie

I give up, last post on this. It is quite simple.

TRCM

quitter.......


I agree, it is quite simple. But everyone seems to interpet it differently.

I'm just glad the way I read it is the same way the people here in VA & NC who give the tickets read it, as that is where I do most of my driving.

Haulin_in_Dixie

No not a quitter, it is just fruitless to attempt to explain to someone who has trouble with reading comprehension.

TRCM

Now that you mentioned it....yes it is.

RickG

Just more ignorance displayed . You CAN work more than 14 hours . You just cannot drive after 14 hours on duty . If your truck is under contract just removing the signs does not mean it is not a commercial vehicle . The contract is still in effect . If you read the regulations they clearly state any time in a commercial vehicle is on duty . It also states carrying alcohol in a commercial vehicle is prohibited unless it is on the manifest .

Haulin_in_Dixie

My my and I thought that the point of the log was when you could drive. Is not driving what this is all about? I don't think anyone was even concerned with how many hours you spend changing oil and mounting tires. Only technically how that time affects driving time, both in the 14 hour driving day and the driving week of 60 or 70 hours before you have to take the extended off duty period. And I know of no one that logs this time anyway. After putting kingpins in the Freightliner, I guess i would not be able to drive for the rest of the week. Also, there is no allowance in federal law for a part time commercial vehicle, it either is or is not.

Fair for all? No but it is the law. If you have IFTA or Apportioned you even have to account for the miles by law, including the routes you took.

RickG

The laws aren't common sense . For instance , there is an exemption where you can be off duty at a terminal if relieved of responsibility but there is no exemption when being in a CMV . Any time in a CMV is on duty . That is why RV transit companies require drivers to log all deadhead miles . You aren't committed to a load but you're still under contract to them . There are police officers that will stop you and check your logs when you least expect it . I had 26,000 lb. tags on my dually . It was a commercial vehicle . I should have had my own DOT number and name on the truck if I wanted to take Bennett's magnetic signs off . When I was home I had another vehicle for personal use . Read the regulations carefully . They only say you cannot drive more than 11 hours or after 14 hours on duty . Nowhere does it say you must stop working after 14 hours . You can come drive 11 hours then work 5 hours on a repair right away and not be in violation . A company driver could drive 8 hours then work another 8 hours on the dock and not be in violation . The logs are about how many compensated hours you can work , not just driving . Any alcohol or container in a CMV at any time is a violation . A trace of alcohol , even 0.001 will put you out of service on the spot . It isn't DUI but a report will go to your carrier and possibly your insurance company . People that want to play games with the regs may learn the hard way .