Turbonetics vs Garret
09-25-2007, 01:01 PM
#46
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T-netics doesn't have them on their site yet, but I think they might be buried somewhere at www.turboneticsownersclub.com
I'm trying to find that myself.
I think the T-58 map that PH4TTY posted showed it being around 50lb/min
Find the thread I had about "turbonetics info here" and that T-58 map is in there.
Justin
09-25-2007, 02:53 PM
#47
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I honestly think that the edge turbo is too big of a secondary turbo for S400. A good size turbo would be in the 400 to 450 rwhp area, if I remember correctly that the edge is at the 500rwhp mark. Its too close of size to the S400 to be matched. The actual volume of air flow is less after primary because its compressed slightly. Too big of secondary will drive your drive pressure up, IMO. You need to size them to fit right. For a 600rwhp truck a GT3788/GT4288 is a nice set-up depend on which trim and a/r ratio you go with. Now we just need someone to build one and test it out.
09-25-2007, 03:04 PM
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I honestly think that the edge turbo is too big of a secondary turbo for S400. A good size turbo would be in the 400 to 450 rwhp area, if I remember correctly that the edge is at the 500rwhp mark. Its too close of size to the S400 to be matched. The actual volume of air flow is less after primary because its compressed slightly. Too big of secondary will drive your drive pressure up, IMO. You need to size them to fit right. For a 600rwhp truck a GT3788/GT4288 is a nice set-up depend on which trim and a/r ratio you go with. Now we just need someone to build one and test it out.
I do agree on the GT3782R/GT4202R, or the GT3788R/GT4508R setup...as soon as I recover from the blown HG, I'm building a GT4088R/GT4508R setup
Chris
09-25-2007, 05:18 PM
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I've decided on 3788/4508.
I'd like to find a journal bearing 4508-- I don't think a BB primary would be worth the extra $1k. Then there's the additional water plumbing...
I'm thinking a journal bearing 4508 with Tial stainless v-band housing. Too bad the only housing they have now is 1.0-- way too tight, imo. I think the V-band housing would simplify hooking up the primary.
If not, though, I'll figure someway to make work whichever housing I choose--- likely a 1.15 or 1.28 plain Garrett cast housing (with Swain coating, of course)
jh
I'd like to find a journal bearing 4508-- I don't think a BB primary would be worth the extra $1k. Then there's the additional water plumbing...
I'm thinking a journal bearing 4508 with Tial stainless v-band housing. Too bad the only housing they have now is 1.0-- way too tight, imo. I think the V-band housing would simplify hooking up the primary.
If not, though, I'll figure someway to make work whichever housing I choose--- likely a 1.15 or 1.28 plain Garrett cast housing (with Swain coating, of course)
jh
09-25-2007, 06:05 PM
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Chris
09-25-2007, 08:21 PM
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Those SS housings are back-ordered, but if you're willing to wait, they will deliver,
GT45 is the biggest they have housings for. It would be nice to see a GT47 housing, too
Supposedly, these housings drop like 30# off the turbo while actually losing LESS heat. That's COOL imo!
NOthing wrong with dropping 30# off the weight of your twins..
GT45 is the biggest they have housings for. It would be nice to see a GT47 housing, too
Supposedly, these housings drop like 30# off the turbo while actually losing LESS heat. That's COOL imo!
NOthing wrong with dropping 30# off the weight of your twins..
09-25-2007, 10:08 PM
#52
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How much different is the garrett turbo from the S400? Is the compressor air discharge on the same side as your garrett that you listed? The turbo exhaust entrance should use the standard flange sizing. The S400 is only a $800 turbo, the 4588 journal is around the 1200 mark. The 4588 bearing is around the 2k mark. I throwing around the idea of using the S400 to try on bottom of the 3788. If you hate it someone will buy it, so dump it. Buy the 4588BB. They should close enough to use the same hot pipe. The cold air tubes are a piece of cake to weld but the hot pipe you have to a good welder. I've never seen the S400 so I could be off based. The 3b is a different animal. Nothing is even close to lining up. The 4588 is internally wastegated right? The garrett K31 is nice primary as it uses a internal wastegate and spools up fast and flows decent amount of air. The top turbo, determines the spool-up rate and the drive pressure
09-26-2007, 12:11 AM
#53
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No gated housings for the 4588-- at least none shown on the Garrett or Tial sites. The inlets onthe 4588 are standard T4 divided--not ideal for big charger inlet. The V-band inlet is much better, imo--not as restrictive.
The K31 from what I understand is about the same as a 4202-- which is a step down in size from the 4508. The 4508 and the B2 spin the same direction, so the tangential housings are similar in orientation and such.
From the S400 maps I've been able to dig up, a Garrett of comparable size has a much broader map. For example, a 4202 Garrett map cover 45-95lb/min @ 3:1 PR. A S476 covers 58-102 lb/min. We expect the Garrett to have less overall flow because of the smaller inducer (74.7mm vs 76mm). Notice how the Garrett map is 50lb/min wide, but the S476 is only 44lb/min wide.
Now, I'm having to guess at the exact values due to the map layout. But see for yourself:
Garrett Map:
S476: http://www.bullseyepower.com/S400.asp
(sorry, the image won't link over)
I'd like to see an S480 map and compare it to the 4508.
What size inducer are most of the S400s guys are using for twins? I don't know much of anything about the B-W turbos, so I'd love it if someone could throw me a link with nice legible compressor maps and specs that would give me a good "B-W 101" type info.
For price, I don't think the B-Ws are all that much cheaper. Bullseye has the S480 for just a tick over $2200. I wonder if they are modded or something.
The 4508 and S480 seem to be pretty close to each other in price and inducer size--- and they even have the same orientation (spin direction).
What's really interesting to me is just how different the map shapes of the Garrett and BW turbos are. The BWs look weird once you've been staring at Garretts for awhile.
Justin
The K31 from what I understand is about the same as a 4202-- which is a step down in size from the 4508. The 4508 and the B2 spin the same direction, so the tangential housings are similar in orientation and such.
From the S400 maps I've been able to dig up, a Garrett of comparable size has a much broader map. For example, a 4202 Garrett map cover 45-95lb/min @ 3:1 PR. A S476 covers 58-102 lb/min. We expect the Garrett to have less overall flow because of the smaller inducer (74.7mm vs 76mm). Notice how the Garrett map is 50lb/min wide, but the S476 is only 44lb/min wide.
Now, I'm having to guess at the exact values due to the map layout. But see for yourself:
Garrett Map:
S476: http://www.bullseyepower.com/S400.asp
(sorry, the image won't link over)
I'd like to see an S480 map and compare it to the 4508.
What size inducer are most of the S400s guys are using for twins? I don't know much of anything about the B-W turbos, so I'd love it if someone could throw me a link with nice legible compressor maps and specs that would give me a good "B-W 101" type info.
For price, I don't think the B-Ws are all that much cheaper. Bullseye has the S480 for just a tick over $2200. I wonder if they are modded or something.
The 4508 and S480 seem to be pretty close to each other in price and inducer size--- and they even have the same orientation (spin direction).
What's really interesting to me is just how different the map shapes of the Garrett and BW turbos are. The BWs look weird once you've been staring at Garretts for awhile.
Justin
09-26-2007, 01:26 AM
#54
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Vs the $650 b2 S400 from city diesel. 74/100 compressor 88/95 turbine. I don't know why that map on bullseye is so different
Also note the scales are off quite a bit on these maps, but if you look at it they're very close. Biggest difference I see is the higher PR's on the garrett.
09-26-2007, 01:36 AM
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09-26-2007, 01:45 AM
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Vs the $650 b2 S400 from city diesel. 74/100 compressor 88/95 turbine. I don't know why that map on bullseye is so different
Also note the scales are off quite a bit on these maps, but if you look at it they're very close. Biggest difference I see is the higher PR's on the garrett.
$1400 more or so!
09-26-2007, 02:00 AM
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09-26-2007, 04:24 AM
#59
If you guys go over the dieselram.com and look at there project truck. Look at the Evil twins forum. There you will see an Edge BB on top and S400 on bottom. S400 is larger. IMO that setup will be just fine.
09-27-2007, 02:34 AM
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The flame is cool too =Phttp://alldieselmotorsports.vidiac.c...2300e97bbc.htm