piles

Hi there, ive been reading these forums for quite some time and have finally decided to post a question, im currently wanting to building my 01,HO to be in the 500hp range,{ currently running VA box RV 275s intake and exhaust done, very nice combo but time to move up} and am desperatley trying to decide on a turbo to replace my stock HX. From all the reading ive done it seems to me a turbonetics or garret BB would be the best bet for a single in a daily driver with a manual tranny, if anyone could offer some opinions or share their experience with either one of these turbos it would be greatly appreciated, seems theres lots of interest in them but not alot of people runnin them, so far im leanin toward the turbonetics stage 2, {not sure a 3 actually exists} ,Thanks!

somis13

not many run the t-netics units because of the price.

piles

Thats what I figured, I may still take the plunge and order one though if i can come up with any reasons why they would be better than a garret, Thanks for the reply

Ph4tty

Search through Hohn's posts/threads for more than you can shake a stick at's worth of info about the garrett's

HOHN

I'm kinda in the same boat, attempting to figure which way to go for a turbo.

In favor of the Turbonetics units are are low compressor trims which support higher pressure ratios fairly well-- like the Schwitzer turbos. Another plus for them is the larger exhaust exit in the housing.

On the minus side (or plus, depending on your perspective), the T-netics chargers are setup for a big foot flange (T4 divided), so you have to use the included adapter or run a T4 manifold. Also, these are not DUAL ball bearing, just single ball bearing with a 360º journal bearing as the other one. This means that they won't give the lightning fast spoolup of a dual BB unit (Garrett) and spoolup will more like a regular journal bearing turbo.

They also aren't water-cooled like the Garretts-- which makes install a little easier, since there's no separate water lines to run. The disadvantage is, of course, that it's not water cooled.

I don't know that anyone could say one is necessarily better than the other, but I have to say that the T-netics chargers really intrigue me, and I'd love to try one.

Please let us know how the T-netics works for you if you go that route-- there's little to nothing for feedback on the internet on these turbos.

Justin

Tiger Rag

Isn't Edge's ball bearing turbo made by Turbonetics? I don't know anyone running one, but I believe them to be the mfgr. I think it was price prohibitive.

piles

Thanks for the replys everyone,Hohn, I wasnt aware that the turbonetics units were not true dual BB, this is good to know, also a little frustrating as the Garret is sounding better an better, if a guy takes into consideration the faster spoolup, the water cooling , an the better price I cannot see any good reason to pay more for the t-netics unit.Hohn, you seem to have researched this pretty well already, which Garret turbo do you think would fit the bill the best for my needs, I kinda wanna keep it small as possible to cool 500hp as in my eyes you cant beat fast spool up, really appreciate the help guys!

13FOX

The Edge BB Jammer is made by t-netics and it's a dual BB I believe.

signature600

Don't think it's Dual BB...just a single ball bearing and one journal bearing, like all T-netics units!

Without tearing down the one my friend has, I'm not sure though!

Chris

kantdrive55

If a turbo is engineered correctly it doesn't have to be a bb to spool quickly. In developing our Super B which is based off the switzer S300 we actually got better throttle response over testing the garrett chargers. We are able to support 450-500hp with our Super B and it can also be upgraded into twins down the road if you want. A BB turbo is also VERY expensive to rebuild when they wear out. Have a look at our Super B and if you have any questions feel free to call or pm me.

HOHN

I don't think any of the Garretts that are marketed for our truck will cool 500hp, honestly.

Garrett seems to be making those claims based purely on what the compressor flow will support. But the reality is that the turbine side seems a little too tight to keep EGT under control past 400hp.

The 4088 that Sig600 is running is basically a Garrett stg 3 in a larger frame turbo. Put another way, the stg3 is sort of a "hybrid"-- it's basically a GT4088 in a smaller GT37 frame to help spoolup. But the larger turbine wheel of the 4088 will increase the HP it will support, even with the same compressor.

Then again, if you are going to run a larger GT40 frame turbo, then the question is why not go to the larger compressor of a 4094 instead of a 4088? The 4094 will move a lot more air at lower pressure ratios (70lb/min at only 2:1), but the map gets really narrow at high pressure ratios and you'd have major surge issues if you wanted to keep good spoolup. You can go to a larger housing and eliminate the surge, but then you have more lag and smoke.

Honestly, the "best" Garrett IMO to use as a single to keep 500hp cool is the GT4294. Unfortunately, it's huge and laggy--more of a sledpulling turbo. This thing is past SPS66 territory and closer to an Aurora 5K in airflow.

Realistically, it's probably better to stick with a "packaged" Garrett like the stg 3 and live with its limitations. If it won't cool you down, then twin it.

My personal plan right now is a Stg 2 Garrett above a GT4508 with an external gate. This is a solid 600hp worth of air, and will have spoolup a little better than stock HX35.

Think of the stg 2 as a stock charger with a taller map (higher pressure ratio) and faster spoolup You'll have 5-8psi cruising on the hwy, with spoolup that's as fast as you move the pedal-- essentially zero lag.

I'm convinced that the Stg 2 is better than the stg 3 Garrett. Neither will support the claimed HP, but the stg 2 will spool faster than the 3 while still supporting about 380hp of all-day HP-- 450 or more for quick bursts. This would make for a killer top charger in a twins setup. The inducer on the stg2 is around 62mm, while the stg 3 is 64mm-ish.

Summary: with Garretts, go huge and live with the lag, or go small and live with the cooling limitations but have a great top turbo for twins later.

JMO

signature600

I have to say this...I'm a fan of the Super B single...but you guys need to re-think your HP ratings for 12v engines. It might make the same 450-500HP on a 12v, but that will require EXTENSIVE tuning...which most people don't have the knowledge or patience to do. I ran one at 350hp, and while it did Excellent at that power, I was up against what I considered a safe EGT range...around 1450* pre-turbo. More power would have surely been possible, but not probably for most!

Now put it on a CR or VP 24v, and those ratings are a lot more accurate!

Just my $.02
Chris

signature600

Nice post Hohn...that's the way I'm starting to think too!

Nice disclaimer at the bottom too
Chris

HOHN

I agree completely, and from what I gather about the Super B, it has one of best records of customer satisfaction for spoolup and cooling.

It's one thing to say that a turbo will spool quickly. It's another to say that it will spool faster (which I know you aren't claiming). I agree that a Super B will spool very nicely. But an equivalent design with the only change being a BB chra will spool faster once the turbine is in operating range. The viscous friction doesn't lie.

The rebuild cost is certainly a consideration, but I really doubt very many people are going to be accumulating enough miles on a modified truck to make that a factor. I'd expect either to last 100K miles or more, depending on duty profile and such.

Aside from the BB turbos, the Super B is at or near the top of anyone's list of good towing single chargers that will still support good HP.

As far as bang for the buck-- well, that all depends on how you measure "bang." If you get an extra rush from the huge hit when a BB turbo lights, then that would skew things. But a journal bearing turbo like the Super B can certainly more than hold it's own in the value department-- perhaps even surpass.

JMO (see disclaimer)

Jfaulkner

There is a reason Turbonetics doesn't use dual BB's in there chargers. Here is a link to their FAQ's. About 1/2 way down the list they explain why. Also keep in mind your not going to beat Turbonetics warranty Also here is a link to their BB page (to fix the link that's broken in the FAQ section)