Which Turbo?
03-29-2003, 03:02 PM
#32
DTR Advertiser
Re:Which Turbo?
During much of the development of the EDM injectors one of the trucks we use runs the the larger sized B-1 turbo. It has been abused by so many dyno runs and WOT runs on the street I cant keep up. The gammit of sizes and power levels range from mild stockers to stupid wild injectors with more holes than you can count on all your hands and toes. With the abuse the thing has taken Im franky surprised it has not "huffed" itself to the land of dead turbos.<br>Personally I have exploded a few turbos in my day and all of them began with the letter "H" ;D<br>For durability we have come to love the B-1. The only complaint I have is: it should be renamed from "B-1" to "Warthog" for its tenacity and toughness like the A10 we use to bust tanks and armor in foreign lands. "Howitzer" could fit as well ;D<br><br>Don~<br><br><br>
03-30-2003, 12:00 AM
#33
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Re:Which Turbo?
[quote author=banshee link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#121789 date=1048940444]
Not knocking the B-1 on its dependability Kurt, but I'm just pointing out that the issue has come up before as you admitted in your post:
Hello Kurt
[quote author=banshee link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#121789 date=1048940444]
Not knocking the B-1 on its dependability Kurt, but I'm just pointing out that the issue has come up before as you admitted in your post:
[/quote]
banshee, What issue?? That we have replaced bearings in a couple of the B-1's? Sounds more like praise to me ;D ;D.
Actually I do think it's getting alittle old when I read where the comparisions of the Hx40's and the B-1's. Like in one of your posts "Spoolup on this truck and my truck (mods in sig below) is by far much faster with the PDR than even the KSB1." Then critize the B-1 for needing the bearings replaced.
Let's have that "Turbo Dyno off", Drag race or sledpull. Then we start with a any new Hx40 with all the Mods with Trimmings and a new B-1.
Now to be fair should we block off the Hx40's wastegate or add one to the B-1?
We do 100 - 200 -300+? High power runs. 650-700-750 RWHp 1400-1600 TQ. with, Diesel, Propane, and maybe 250 hp of nitrous. We can vary the boost some 40-50-60+ psi.
Then we can tear them down and check to see which one has more bearing wear.
How many Hx40's would "Huff" ???? We can only guess.
Would the B-1 need the bearings replaced?? Maybe
cost? (around $300-$350)
The Hx40 based turbos will "Huff" if treated to this kind of use
the B-1 just says " Got any More Nitrous?)
Now I read two or three posts that agree with what you have said about you prefering the Hx40 over the B-1 but I have also have read or been told the Opposite numerous times. Altough usually it reads something like this email
To: Kurt Yardley
From: Albert Lemus 12/27/02
"This is Albert Lemus; I just purchased a B1 turbo from you guys got it the week before Christmas. I bought the turbo through Stefan at DTT. I can’t believe how good this thing sounds and spools. After breaking 3 hx-40's with 16 cm housings, I have a question concerning boost levels. My previous setup was Bully dog stage 4, Diablo power puck , hx-40, Blue chip diesel 60 %, dtt 91 % converter and race valve body, Propane and nitrous. Hp figures on dyno jet were 484 on muscle and 652 on drugs. I now have your turbo and super mental injectors installed. My B1 has a pin keeping the waste gate closed. I am getting 48 lbs of boost on injectors and puck alone. I have pinned my boost gauge with the blue chip box on. I will install a 60lbs gauge tomorrow but will not test until I can speak to you regarding how much boost these things can generally take. I have been drag racing mustangs for years and know no matter how good a part is breakage can always occur but is something I can live with. Also do you sell a waste set-up for this turbo? Thanks again for offering a great product. You can reach me at 786-385-6352. (End Of Email Message)
[move][glow=green, 3, 300]No one turbo is the right choice for everyone. [/glow] [/move]
Different turbos for different needs.
Half the reason I am pursuing the K-45 Line is to have a turbo that is in the same class ,That is for the customer that doesn't need a B-1 but needs a bigger turbo. They will be more compareable to the different Hx40's In price and they may even have the same "Bearing Issues".
Please don't take offense to any of this. There's is always a different of view.
Kurt[/quote]
Not knocking the B-1 on its dependability Kurt, but I'm just pointing out that the issue has come up before as you admitted in your post:
My thoughts were that to that date the only thing I had replaced on the B-1's was a few sets of bearings.
[quote author=banshee link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#121789 date=1048940444]
Not knocking the B-1 on its dependability Kurt, but I'm just pointing out that the issue has come up before as you admitted in your post:
[/quote]
banshee, What issue?? That we have replaced bearings in a couple of the B-1's? Sounds more like praise to me ;D ;D.
Actually I do think it's getting alittle old when I read where the comparisions of the Hx40's and the B-1's. Like in one of your posts "Spoolup on this truck and my truck (mods in sig below) is by far much faster with the PDR than even the KSB1." Then critize the B-1 for needing the bearings replaced.
Let's have that "Turbo Dyno off", Drag race or sledpull. Then we start with a any new Hx40 with all the Mods with Trimmings and a new B-1.
Now to be fair should we block off the Hx40's wastegate or add one to the B-1?
We do 100 - 200 -300+? High power runs. 650-700-750 RWHp 1400-1600 TQ. with, Diesel, Propane, and maybe 250 hp of nitrous. We can vary the boost some 40-50-60+ psi.
Then we can tear them down and check to see which one has more bearing wear.
How many Hx40's would "Huff" ???? We can only guess.
Would the B-1 need the bearings replaced?? Maybe
cost? (around $300-$350)
The Hx40 based turbos will "Huff" if treated to this kind of use
the B-1 just says " Got any More Nitrous?)
Now I read two or three posts that agree with what you have said about you prefering the Hx40 over the B-1 but I have also have read or been told the Opposite numerous times. Altough usually it reads something like this email
To: Kurt Yardley
From: Albert Lemus 12/27/02
"This is Albert Lemus; I just purchased a B1 turbo from you guys got it the week before Christmas. I bought the turbo through Stefan at DTT. I can’t believe how good this thing sounds and spools. After breaking 3 hx-40's with 16 cm housings, I have a question concerning boost levels. My previous setup was Bully dog stage 4, Diablo power puck , hx-40, Blue chip diesel 60 %, dtt 91 % converter and race valve body, Propane and nitrous. Hp figures on dyno jet were 484 on muscle and 652 on drugs. I now have your turbo and super mental injectors installed. My B1 has a pin keeping the waste gate closed. I am getting 48 lbs of boost on injectors and puck alone. I have pinned my boost gauge with the blue chip box on. I will install a 60lbs gauge tomorrow but will not test until I can speak to you regarding how much boost these things can generally take. I have been drag racing mustangs for years and know no matter how good a part is breakage can always occur but is something I can live with. Also do you sell a waste set-up for this turbo? Thanks again for offering a great product. You can reach me at 786-385-6352. (End Of Email Message)
[move][glow=green, 3, 300]No one turbo is the right choice for everyone. [/glow] [/move]
Different turbos for different needs.
Half the reason I am pursuing the K-45 Line is to have a turbo that is in the same class ,That is for the customer that doesn't need a B-1 but needs a bigger turbo. They will be more compareable to the different Hx40's In price and they may even have the same "Bearing Issues".
Please don't take offense to any of this. There's is always a different of view.
Kurt[/quote]
03-30-2003, 02:48 AM
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Re:Which Turbo?
[quote author=KwikKurt link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#122037 date=1049004057]
Please don't take offense to any of this. There's is always a different of view. Kurt
[/quote]
But you're an offensive guy, especially after eating a couple tacos. :-X
Seriously though, one of the things that I often run into on the forums is conflicting viewpoints from folks who have tried things out. The HX40 spools faster than the KSB1. The Edge Comp fuels harder than the TST PowerMax 3. Two forums later, you'll find another message stating that the KSB1 outspools the 40, and that the PM3 rocked all over the Comp box.
This general confusion and difference of viewpoints is caused by a couple things:
1) Posts often don't have all the necessary information attached to them for someone to make an adequate conclusion. Turbo threads are common for this mistake. This turbo generates X HP and spools faster than this other turbo. No mention will be made of wastegating, or exhaust turbine size.
2) Outdated information. Things in the diesel industry change fairly quickly. So much so, that it is nearly impossible (timewise and pocketbook wise) to stay abreast of all the current changes, especially for an enthusiast or a hobbyist. So what was true yesterday, may not necessarily be true today, and quite likely won't be true tomorrow. For example, in the 1 1/2 yrs that Wildcat has been active, the Edge Comp has underwent 5 revisions to its software, while the PowerMax has undergone at least 2 revisions. Each revision of each box has influence throttle response, drivability, and overall net horsepower gains. So the results of a test a year ago will quite likely differ from the results of that same test today.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not hacking on the forums, nor the people who post on them. Without these forums, and the great folks who post on them, the diesel performance industry quite likely wouldn't be where it is today. Wildcat definitely wouldn't be a successful as it is. But these forums are not a replacement for a really fantastic dealer who ensures that his information is kept up to date, and spends the money to test out as many new and revised products as they possibly can. Only then, can you be ensured that you are getting the most up to date information possible.
Rod
Please don't take offense to any of this. There's is always a different of view.
Kurt[/quote]
But you're an offensive guy, especially after eating a couple tacos. :-X
Seriously though, one of the things that I often run into on the forums is conflicting viewpoints from folks who have tried things out. The HX40 spools faster than the KSB1. The Edge Comp fuels harder than the TST PowerMax 3. Two forums later, you'll find another message stating that the KSB1 outspools the 40, and that the PM3 rocked all over the Comp box.
This general confusion and difference of viewpoints is caused by a couple things:
1) Posts often don't have all the necessary information attached to them for someone to make an adequate conclusion. Turbo threads are common for this mistake. This turbo generates X HP and spools faster than this other turbo. No mention will be made of wastegating, or exhaust turbine size.
2) Outdated information. Things in the diesel industry change fairly quickly. So much so, that it is nearly impossible (timewise and pocketbook wise) to stay abreast of all the current changes, especially for an enthusiast or a hobbyist. So what was true yesterday, may not necessarily be true today, and quite likely won't be true tomorrow. For example, in the 1 1/2 yrs that Wildcat has been active, the Edge Comp has underwent 5 revisions to its software, while the PowerMax has undergone at least 2 revisions. Each revision of each box has influence throttle response, drivability, and overall net horsepower gains. So the results of a test a year ago will quite likely differ from the results of that same test today.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not hacking on the forums, nor the people who post on them. Without these forums, and the great folks who post on them, the diesel performance industry quite likely wouldn't be where it is today. Wildcat definitely wouldn't be a successful as it is. But these forums are not a replacement for a really fantastic dealer who ensures that his information is kept up to date, and spends the money to test out as many new and revised products as they possibly can. Only then, can you be ensured that you are getting the most up to date information possible.
Rod
03-30-2003, 08:31 AM
#35
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Re:Which Turbo?
[quote author=Push Rod link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#122046 date=1049014089]
[quote author=KwikKurt link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#122037 date=1049004057]
Please don't take offense to any of this. There's is always a different of view. Kurt
[/quote]
But you're an offensive guy, especially after eating a couple tacos. :-X
Don't get me wrong. I'm not hacking on the forums, nor the people who post on them. Without these forums, and the great folks who post on them, the diesel performance industry quite likely wouldn't be where it is today. Wildcat definitely wouldn't be a successful as it is. But these forums are not a replacement for a really fantastic dealer who ensures that his information is kept up to date, and spends the money to test out as many new and revised products as they possibly can. Only then, can you be ensured that you are getting the most up to date information possible.
Rod
[/quote]
Rod, It may take me two Tacos; Where your offensive just by having a Phone in your hand! :-* :P
[move][glow=blue, 4, 300]"Wild Kitten Performance - I am not in the office so please call back" [/glow] [/move]
:-*
And you forgot to mention how the forums are helping to improve your typing / spelling skills!!! :-X
[quote author=KwikKurt link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#122037 date=1049004057]
Please don't take offense to any of this. There's is always a different of view.
Kurt[/quote]
But you're an offensive guy, especially after eating a couple tacos. :-X
Don't get me wrong. I'm not hacking on the forums, nor the people who post on them. Without these forums, and the great folks who post on them, the diesel performance industry quite likely wouldn't be where it is today. Wildcat definitely wouldn't be a successful as it is. But these forums are not a replacement for a really fantastic dealer who ensures that his information is kept up to date, and spends the money to test out as many new and revised products as they possibly can. Only then, can you be ensured that you are getting the most up to date information possible.
Rod
[/quote]
Rod, It may take me two Tacos; Where your offensive just by having a Phone in your hand! :-* :P
[move][glow=blue, 4, 300]"Wild Kitten Performance - I am not in the office so please call back" [/glow] [/move]
:-*And you forgot to mention how the forums are helping to improve your typing / spelling skills!!! :-X
03-30-2003, 09:16 AM
#36
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Re:Which Turbo?
At least I can spell yer business name right, Mr. Mild To Wild Chilli Performance.<br><br> <br><br>Rod
<br><br>Rod
03-31-2003, 01:56 PM
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Re:Which Turbo?
banshee, What issue??
Actually I do think it's getting alittle old when I read where the comparisions of the Hx40's and the B-1's. Like in one of your posts "Spoolup on this truck and my truck (mods in sig below) is by far much faster with the PDR than even the KSB1." Then critize the B-1 for needing the bearings replaced.
Let's have that "Turbo Dyno off", Drag race or sledpull. Then we start with a any new Hx40 with all the Mods with Trimmings and a new B-1.
03-31-2003, 07:52 PM
#38
Administrator
Re:Which Turbo?
As Kurt and many of you are aware, my son and I purchased two of the "early" B-1's, one being a "regular housing" and the<br>other the "Kwikspool" Housing. Kurt sent us the "regular housing" first which I immediately installed on my 96' 12<br>valve. Prior to installing this "regular housing" B-1, I had<br>the Piers Modified HX-40/16 on my truck. We purchased <br>these turbos right about the time Kurt was just releasing<br>these turbos and he did have a heck of a "back-log" at <br>the time!! ;D Before going any further, let me say that<br>Kurt's customer service was EXCELLENT and he was always<br>eager to answer any questions I had about the turbos.<br>I also realize that his "technology" has come a long way<br>since those first B-1's, so my experiences may vary from<br>new owners of the B-1's Kurt has now. <br><br>On my truck, the "regular housing" B-1 had much more<br>lag than Piers HX-40/16. However, the mid-range and<br>top end power were better with the B-1 than Piers HX-40.<br>I actually gained almost three (3) miles per hour on my<br>top end speed with the RH B-1. The EGT's were lower<br>under almost all conditions with the RH B-1 compared <br>to Piers HX-40, but this was not true with the KS B-1.<br>Max boost on the Piers HX-40 was around 45lbs. versus<br>almost 60lbs. with the RH B-1. I will post comparison<br>EGT temps/boost at various speeds later. Horespower/<br>increases over my stock HX-35/12 were as follows on the Piers HX-40 and the RH B-1:<br><br>Piers HX-40/16: 27 more RWHP than the stock HX-35/12<br>Kurts RH B-1: 35 more RWHP than the stock HX-35/12<br>(Mustang Inertia-Load Dynamometer) on my 96' 12 valve<br>with mods listed in signature below.) <br><br><br>Towing with the B-1 was another story. The "lag" I had with the RH B-1 became a problem I felt I had to deal with. In talking with Kurt,he felt the KS B-1 would serve my needs much better. He had not "assembled" our second turbo yet, (one for my son) so I asked Kurt to make it a KS B-1 which<br>he did with no problems. Upon receiving the "Kwikspool"<br>B-1 I took off the RH B-1 and put on the KS B-1. I<br>immediately noticed that the EGT's were higher with<br>the KS B-1 than they were with the RH B-1. While<br>the bottom-end "lag" improved just slightly, the KS<br>B-1 was still not as good as the Piers HX-40 on my <br>truck! One peculiarity with this KS B-1 that I never<br>had with the RH B-1 was the "characteristic skipping<br>or surging" it had while towing. I believe Kurt had <br>mentioned this earlier in this thread. What I mean by<br>this, is as you are traveling down the Interstate on<br>level ground, the turbo would begin going "Sh-sh-sh-<br>sh-sh etc." To stop this, you either had to let off the<br>throttle or accelerate through it. On mine, if I did not<br>do this, I began to experience a "shudder" on the truck.<br>As I said earlier, Kurt has probably fixed these "glitches"<br>on the newer models, but I did have them on my truck.<br><br>There is no doubt that the B-1's are tough. I do know <br>that "Jetpilot" did have bearing problems twice I believe<br>which Kurt has already addressed. Kurt did TDR members<br>"Strick-9" and "Devildog" also have some minor problems??<br><br>As far as the "shoot-out" with all of the turbos that would<br>be a great idea! I will volunteer my "modified" 96' 12 valve!<br> ;D Piers tells all of his customers that the wastegate on<br>his modified HX-40's need to be left alone. (40-45lbs O.K.,<br>50+ NOT GOOD!!) IMO, Piers HX-40 is a HUGE improvement<br>over the early HX-40's that were blowing up on a regular<br>basis. But, by the same token, many of the high H.P. trucks<br>have run that turbo with no problems whatsoever including<br>me!! Heck, "DonM" even ran one for awhile!! <br><br>Some of the members had called and e-mailed me asking<br>me to post about these turbos which I had done once<br>before. Hope this has helped clear up some of the questions<br>out there. It has already been said, but I will repeat it,.....<br>"run what works best for YOUR truck!!" Any of you are<br>welcome to ride in mine, although I am testing a new<br>"hybrid" HX-50 right now different than any of the others<br>that are out there right now. I will keep you posted.<br><br>Good luck on your choice of turbo(s)!!<br><br>--------<br>John_P
I will volunteer my "modified" 96' 12 valve!<br> ;D Piers tells all of his customers that the wastegate on<br>his modified HX-40's need to be left alone. (40-45lbs O.K.,<br>50+ NOT GOOD!!) IMO, Piers HX-40 is a HUGE improvement<br>over the early HX-40's that were blowing up on a regular<br>basis. But, by the same token, many of the high H.P. trucks<br>have run that turbo with no problems whatsoever including<br>me!! Heck, "DonM" even ran one for awhile!! <br><br>Some of the members had called and e-mailed me asking<br>me to post about these turbos which I had done once<br>before. Hope this has helped clear up some of the questions<br>out there. It has already been said, but I will repeat it,.....<br>"run what works best for YOUR truck!!" Any of you are<br>welcome to ride in mine, although I am testing a new<br>"hybrid" HX-50 right now different than any of the others<br>that are out there right now. I will keep you posted.<br><br>Good luck on your choice of turbo(s)!!<br><br>--------<br>John_P
03-31-2003, 09:00 PM
#39
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Re:Which Turbo?
Yep, I ran the 40 from Piers. I liked the turbo a bunch. They are not for the real high HP guys though. I used a 18 housing to keep things in check and not overspeed it. The 16 housing was more fun light to light but choked it some up top. <br><br>Durability: I dont think too many of us could sit here and say the HX40 would take the amounts of "race air" (nitrous) and propane that Jetpilots B-1 did. 700-800HP aint gonna happen with a HX40. <br><br>That being said, the 40 is a good turbo for most people. As long as you dont open the tap past 500HP. The larger frame turbos would be a better choice for this. B-1, H2E, HX50, HX55, etc.<br><br><br><br>Don~<br><br><br><br><br><br><b r><br><br>
03-31-2003, 10:16 PM
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Re:Which Turbo?
[quote author=dodgeman01 link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=15#121749 date=1048914487]<br>Lets throw a truck at ya and see what turbo would work best.<br>a 180hp pump dodge ctd with a 5spd 370hp injectors and putting around 400-450hp or 350-400hp to the ground. Pulls trailers about 3 to 4 times a week with a medium load. Lives in hilly country but wants to sled pull 3-5 times a year.<br>What turbo would you recommend to this truck and what estimated price for this turbo?<br>DM01 ;D<br>[/quote]<br>[glow=red, 2, 300]?[/glow]
04-01-2003, 08:49 PM
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Re:Which Turbo?
[quote author=banshee link=board=4;threadid=12687;start=30#122630 date=1049140607]<br>
<br><br>of needing bearings replaced... as I clearly stated.<br><br>
<br><br><br>banshee, AS far as I recall to the Comparision "Issue" The K-45's are the only Turbo I have EVER refered to as the "HX40" Killer...... <br><br>and honestly time will only tell. I am sure it will be fun. <br><br><br>It would be an interesting test to wastegate a B-1 to 40 PSI and do a side by side bearing life comparision.... Of course both of them would probably outlast anyone waiting for the first failure.<br><br>I want to go on record on two things.<br><br>1. Yes I have had to replace bearings in a couple of B-1's... Maybe even three? Not sure ... Don't really care.<br><br>2. The Hx40 is a Good turbo. For some it is the perfect choice for them and Piers's Modified HX40's are a GREAT deal better than the stock HX40's.... and if a few of his customers would leave the wastegates alone there would be few if any failures with the Piersified Hx40's. Before I released the K-45's I sent many customers the Piers Hx40 direction.<br><br><br>banshee, again the comparision issue.. Take some of the other BIG shaft turbos (For equal comparision)..... Beat on them with some real power then check the shaft play..... The Bigger the bearing the more movement you will have. It does not mean the bearings are bad. Next year we can compare the K-45's to the Hx40's ....<br><br>Turbob Basics. .If the Wheels are not rubbing the housing the bearings are fine.... But don't take my word for it ask who ever you trust that has Big turbo experience. Besides all I do is take these off the shelf and rebox them.... <br><br> I am not going to spend anymore time with the/ your "Bearing Issue" I get the impression you take the opinions / forum Discussions personal. If I was offensive to you I am sorry. You have your Likes and dislikes. You wouldn't happen to be a Democrat ???? <br><br><br>And we all know if there were another good turbo out there this would be a three way "Comparision" and to each his own.<br><br><br>[/quote]
banshee, What issue??
Actually I do think it's getting alittle old when I read where the comparisions of the Hx40's and the B-1's. Like in one of your posts "Spoolup on this truck and my truck (mods in sig below) is by far much faster with the PDR than even the KSB1." Then critize the B-1 for needing the bearings replaced<br>Well what do you expect when you market your turbos as HX-40 killers?? Do you really expect people to not compare them to the turbo you claim you beat all to pieces?? .
<br><br> I am not going to spend anymore time with the/ your "Bearing Issue" I get the impression you take the opinions / forum Discussions personal. If I was offensive to you I am sorry. You have your Likes and dislikes. You wouldn't happen to be a Democrat ???? <br><br><br>And we all know if there were another good turbo out there this would be a three way "Comparision" and to each his own.<br><br><br>[/quote]
04-02-2003, 05:42 AM
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Re:Which Turbo?
your "Bearing Issue"
You wouldn't happen to be a Democrat
Dodgeman,
I would look here for the answer to your question. You won't be disappointed by its performance.
http://www.piersdiesel.com/Hx40.htm
04-02-2003, 05:30 PM
#45
Administrator
Re:Which Turbo?
This topic has some good info in it so Im going to let it continue for now.<br><br>However, lets keep the emotions in check and stick with the subject.<br><br>Thanks<br>Rich.