Well, if I may throw in my 2c.....<br><br>I think that first you should compare the maps supplied by the mfg. Usually they do not lie about this stuff. <br>IMHO the true point in this discussion is not flow@pressure or any other set, but the fitness for the particular application. <br>This is where the VG turbos shine. The usable map is wider. I think that flow numbers against a certain resistance can only tell you a part of the efficiency under WOT. <br><br>The solution would be that all vendors send me free samples of their systems (including twins, triples etc) and I'll write a report about what I like best. Bribes are welcome. <br>This would lead to a salomonic judgement of who paid me best ;D<br><br>Anyway, keep this thread informative and interesting. My interest would be in informations about turbos for the 400-500 hp crowd.<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

Data Logger......Scheids

 

Well unlike you guys I don't have a degree in Turbooligy so most of the terms used are usless in explaining which turbo is better. Besides I'm still using a little HX-35 anyways. :-[ Correct me if I'm wrong here, (usually I am) but aren't all these turbos modified in some way? If they are, what good does the manufacture's Map do then anyways. [undecided]

What I (as a potential buyer) want to see is some side-by-side #'s. Take the &quot;A&quot; turbo off this truck put the &quot;B&quot; turbo on it and show me what they both did so I can make my own choice as to which one is better for me. Just like what was said above by Kurk, &quot; Seems that people are very passionate about their vehicles. They always have been and always will.&quot; Exactlly so why should I trust the guy that you gave the turbo to that is running 800hp doesn't do me one bit of good cause this guy is going to think what ever he has is better then the next guy So why not try a comparison of the &quot;A&quot; and &quot;B&quot; turbo for the customers. ???

As far a durability goes, well I guess I should have left the truck stock if that's what I was looking for. :P

All I want is the truth. (It's getting harder to find every day)

DB

 

[quote author=DarrellB link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=45#131220 date=1051154935]<br>It would be nice to see some real #'s instead of hearing the vendors talking everything up, and then bad mouthing everything that could be better. <br>[/quote]<br><br>Hey Darrel!<br><br>I would like to address this point. At no time did I badmouth the HX50, nor the work that Piers has done on it. Piers does an excellent job with his turbos, getting them to perform in a fashion that Holset has never intended them to perform in. As Don I believe mentioned in a previous post, none of the turbos that we are using, whether it be the B1, HX50, or other brand are intended for use past 30 or 35 PSI. That Piers is able to get the 50 to stick together at 50 PSI, or that Yardley is able to keep the B1 together at 60 PSI, is simply enough commentary that either turbo would be a great choice as they are built by people who are obviously bright as heck.<br><br>All I intended by my initial post was to comment that Doug could not possibly make a judgement as to which turbo was superior as his test was invalid. You can't change fueling levels and still have a test that accurately reflects the capabilities of another component. Looking back on it now, I should have kept my trap shut. <br><br>I'd personally prefer to see each turbo on a truck, in their intended use, on a load-test dyno and on a road-test. The engine dyno results would be very interesting indeed, although I would have questions as to how close the dyno emulates real truck use and I would also love to hear what test Pius feels would be an accurate representation of the capabilties of the turbo.<br><br>Rod

 

[quote author=Jack Thorpe link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=60#131424 date=1051207377]<br>Geez. I was confused for a minute. I thought I was reading an auto tranny thread....<br>[/quote]<br><br>Just wait, when we're deciding what the test truck should have on it, we'll need to decide whether it should have an ATS or DTT tranny

 

Dont forget the type of oil... <br><br>Rick

 

[quote author=Push Rod link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=60#131288 date=1051179660]<br>[quote author=DarrellB link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=45#131220 date=1051154935]<br>It would be nice to see some real #'s instead of hearing the vendors talking everything up, and then bad mouthing everything that could be better. <br>[/quote]<br><br>Hey Darrel!<br><br>I would like to address this point. At no time did I badmouth the HX50, nor the work that Piers has done on it. Piers does an excellent job with his turbos, getting them to perform in a fashion that Holset has never intended them to perform in. As Don I believe mentioned in a previous post, none of the turbos that we are using, whether it be the B1, HX50, or other brand are intended for use past 30 or 35 PSI. That Piers is able to get the 50 to stick together at 50 PSI, or that Yardley is able to keep the B1 together at 60 PSI, is simply enough commentary that either turbo would be a great choice as they are built by people who are obviously bright as heck.<br><br>All I intended by my initial post was to comment that Doug could not possibly make a judgement as to which turbo was superior as his test was invalid. You can't change fueling levels and still have a test that accurately reflects the capabilities of another component. Looking back on it now, I should have kept my trap shut. <br><br>I'd personally prefer to see each turbo on a truck, in their intended use, on a load-test dyno and on a road-test. The engine dyno results would be very interesting indeed, although I would have questions as to how close the dyno emulates real truck use and I would also love to hear what test Pius feels would be an accurate representation of the capabilties of the turbo.<br><br>Rod<br>[/quote]<br><br>Rod, <br><br>I wasn't refering to you a was refering to Most vendors in general. I've not delt with Wild Cat yet, and I only hear good things about you and your company. Other vendors I've delt with have done the bad mouthing. In no way did I what it to come out like you have done it. I should have mad my statement a little clearer I guess. : <br><br>Now that I look back on it I should have just kept my mouth shut as well. <br><br>I am still curious what good the Stock Turbo Map does if the turbo has been modified. ??? Once I get my fuel system upgraded to relieve the stock lift pump I will be looking at a larger turbo and I'm just curious on getting some solid facts to help with my descison. <br><br>Jack if you think this is bad wait till I have to replace my 5spd with a 6spd. ;D<br><br>DB

 

Rod,<br><br><br><br>The above quote is where all of this is coming from..... I do not believe that the B-1 will outflow the PDR-HX50. In fact I feel through my real world driving, testing, and dynoing that the B-1 performance wise (egt control and HP #'s) is in line with the PDR-HX40. However I do feel that the B-1 is the dang toughest mid-sized turbo I have seen or run!<br><br>Personally I think that each of these turbos has its place. Each has its strong and weaker areas. What I do recommend is for every person pondering a turbo upgrade/change to talk with the vendors, folks running the ones they are considering, and really try and drive a truck that is equipped similiarly as theirs with turbos they are considering.<br><br>Doug

 

[quote author=Jetpilot link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=60#131543 date=1051222193]<br>Rod,<br><br><br><br>The above quote is where all of this is coming from..... I do not believe that the B-1 will outflow the PDR-HX50. In fact I feel through my real world driving, testing, and dynoing that the B-1 performance wise (egt control and HP #'s) is in line with the PDR-HX40. However I do feel that the B-1 is the dang toughest mid-sized turbo I have seen or run!<br><br>Personally I think that each of these turbos has its place. Each has its strong and weaker areas. What I do recommend is for every person pondering a turbo upgrade/change to talk with the vendors, folks running the ones they are considering, and really try and drive a truck that is equipped similiarly as theirs with turbos they are considering.<br><br>Doug<br>[/quote]<br><br>Doug, I think we both can agree that when someone is going up this ladder of HP that getting as much feedback as possible from the folks using these products is what helps out a lot. If there is a tu-rd of some sort on the market, we all need to know about it.<br>The two turbos in this discussion like you and others have stated are good choices and built beyond stock spec.<br><br>Real world is where I drive my truck and thats where I want to know how it performs, sometimes a dyno misses several aspects of what a product is designed for. Plus we could take two identically configured trucks and still get some different results. Been there and done that. <br><br>To each his own when it comes time to drop the loot on the product but have some knowledge beyond what one or two folks will praise.<br><br>I remember reading how so many folks loved the Rancho 9000 shocks and that swayed my decision to get a set...2nd set are already toast...no more rancho stuff on my truck.

 

[quote author=DarrellB link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=60#131523 date=1051218543]<br>I wasn't refering to you a was refering to Most vendors in general. I've not delt with Wild Cat yet, and I only hear good things about you and your company.<br><br>I am still curious what good the Stock Turbo Map does if the turbo has been modified. ??? <br>[/quote]<br><br>No worries, Darrell. I wasn't sure/didn't think think you were referring to me, but wanted to clear the air, just in case someone came into the thread partway through.<br><br>Rod

 

[quote author=Jetpilot link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=60#131543 date=1051222193]<br>Personally I think that each of these turbos has its place. [/quote]<br><br>Yup, for sure. One of these days, we'll be able to hook up in same place and time, and give both turbos a work out. I really am curious. Turbo maps, theories, et all and ad nauseum are just fine, but nothing shows what works better than a hard run, or a 30K load ;D<br><br>Rod

 

the reason maps are still useful on modified turbos is the exhaust side is the only side that is usually modified. Maps are not made from the exhaust side they are not infuenced by waistgates or a/r or cm2 or single entry or double entry or anything else on the exhaust housing side other than spoolup.<br>maps are made from rpm, flow and temp of the compressor side...