Well I have had the PDR HX-50 installed on my truck for about a week now. I drove from Piers' shop back to PA and around town a lot so far. All I can say is WOW! As for my impression of the turbo I feel it is going to be a big winner for guys wanting to stay with a single but need more than a HX-40 size charger. I have not been able to do any dyno testing with it and besides the #'s generated would be worthless for comparison due to the modifications that have taken place to my truck. <br><br>What I will say is the HX-50 was able to pull the filter minder down more than 15&quot; under WOT using a brand new Mega Cannon filter! The turbo spools about like a standard B-1 but generated airflow is well in excess of what I ever saw running the B-1. EGT's are about 50*-75* higher running down a level road @ 75 mph. As for EGT's under WOT I can't answer how much change there is because I now have more fuel than when I was running the B-1. <br><br>My recommendation would be for anyone wanting more turbo than a HX-40 to give consideration to the PDR HX-50. <br><br>Doug<br><br>

 

I'm guessing you have the external wastegate and the 17cm housing with how much fuel you run... What is it wastegated at? And do you check backpressures?

 

Sounds like you get yourself a winner Doug<br> Andy and Doug are sending me a 40/16 and <br> some step 6's. Should be here this weekend.<br> Trying to get the boys to go diesel drags!!<br> Good luck with your new setup!!!!!<br><br> Mark<br>

 

well jetpilot we'll find out what those #s are Sturday now wont we? cya there. we will be a white dually with a sewer pipe for exhaust. also will be real shiny 8). also be cummin' with 2 or 3 more dodges.

 

Cummnsdieselboy,<br>I am not going to be able to attend the dyno event.... Work is getting in the way.<br><br>Battering Ram,<br>As for the wastegate I ran the new Billet wastegate which we set to 55 psi. As far as drive pressures I haven't measured them myself but if I remeber correctly Piers told me that they were 1 to 1 to about 50 lbs. I also went with the 15cm housing.

 

[quote author=Jetpilot link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=0#128725 date=1050513676]
Cannon filter! The turbo spools about like a standard B-1 but generated airflow is well in excess of what I ever saw running the B-1. EGT's are about 50*-75* higher running down a level road @ 75 mph. As for EGT's under WOT I can't answer how much change there is because I now have more fuel than when I was running the B-1.
[/quote]

I find this interesting Doug. Its a little tough to compare spool-up, EGTs, or airflow when comparing turbos if the fueling levels differ from one test to the other. Spoolup is going to be stronger on the heavier fueled truck, air movement will be increased as the engine is asking for more air anyway, and EGTs will likely be higher. Do you still have your B1 around there? Would have a chance to hook it up and give us a direct comparison at the same fueling levels? Inquiring minds wanna know ;D

Rod

 

[quote author=Push Rod link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=0#128955 date=1050564024]<br><br>I find this interesting Doug. Its a little tough to compare spool-up, EGTs, or airflow when comparing turbos if the fueling levels differ from one test to the other. Spoolup is going to be stronger on the heavier fueled truck, air movement will be increased as the engine is asking for more air anyway, and EGTs will likely be higher. Do you still have your B1 around there? Would have a chance to hook it up and give us a direct comparison at the same fueling levels? Inquiring minds wanna know ;D<br><br>Rod<br>[/quote]<br><br>That would be an interesting comparison. I'm curious to.

 

Rod,<br><br>I would love to do the comparision if I still owned the B-1. And you are correct in pointing out the difficulty in comparring the turbos because of my fueling changes. The best way would be to bolt them on the same truck and do a side by side trial. I can say though that I never saw the filter minder ever move while running the B-1.<br><br>Guys don't get me wrong here, the B-1 is a great turbo and this post is in NO WAY a slam towards the B-1. It took a heck of a beating from me when I ran it plus it stayed in one piece. I did have to replace bearings but this is because of the boost pressures I was running (personally I would recommend keeping boost below 45 psi for logevity). Kurt is working on a solution that I anticipate will not only help with reliabilty but also performance. <br><br>The 50 is just plain a larger charger than the B-1. It is just capable of flowing more air just as a 40 flows more than a 35 or a 60 will outflow a 50. Everyone needs to pick what is best for their application. The PDR-50 is not recommended for towing by Piers, it also does not spool like a 35. Folks do the research drive the trucks equipped with products you are considering and decide whats best for you.

 

[quote author=Jetpilot link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=0#129080 date=1050595094]<br>1) side trial. I can say though that I never saw the filter minder ever move while running the B-1.<br><br>2) The 50 is just plain a larger charger than the B-1.<br>[/quote]<br><br>1) Maybe your filter is dirty? Seriously though, what you're probably seeing is the simply function of more fuel and the external wastegate increasing flow, versus it being a turbocharger thing. The B1, with a similar setup, would draw your minder down too.<br><br>2) Well, the outside dimensions are definitely larger, however every single thing I've seen on the B1 compressor housing rates it at 925CFM of efficient flow, which is anywhere between 25 - 50 CFM more than 50 wheel is capable of. Of course, Piers has probably worked a little magic in there, but its tough to increase efficiency flow numbers more than 50 or so.

 

Rod,

We have been down this path before.... I do not feel the B-1 flows any more than an HX-40 size charger. This has been my experience through many different dyno runs with countless turbo/injector combos. What the B-1 does have is durability.

As for the HX-50, I will stand by the fact it will outflow a B-1 by a wide margin. I would be happy to meet and run a side by side test of the two if you can supply the B-1. Also I am certain the filter on the Mega-Cannon was not dirty as it is a brand new filter.

I do not want to argue over which charger is better. I have run both and I feel that they both have their place on different setups. Each person must choose whats right for them.

Doug

 

[quote author=Jetpilot link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=0#129126 date=1050605314]<br>I do not want to argue over which charger is better. I have run both and I feel that they both have their place on different setups. Each person must choose whats right for them.<br>[/quote]<br><br>Actually, I wasn't arguing over which turbo was better. Having never played with a Piers 50, it may very well flow more efficiently.<br><br>BUT to make that judgement, you've got do a side by side on the same engine, same day, same fueling levels, with wastes set up properly. That engine, with a tuned waste will flow the same on the intake side, we'd want IAT sensors to discover which turbo is flowing more efficiently. And we'd probably want a flow meter on the truck, just to ensure that the flows _are_ indeed the same.<br><br>Are you going to be at the Claremont rally in Virginia? I'd love to do a side by side comparison with both the KSB1 or the KSB1B and an HX50. Externally wasted (although we don't require the second waste) and tuned to perfection ;D It would be a good thing to have a scientific test done. There is too much conjecture on the 'which turbo is better' threads, and some solid numbers would be nice.<br><br>Rod

 

I am not planning on going to Claremont but I do have a proposition..... I know of a shop in Northern Indianna that has an engine dyno and a 24v motor. We could set it up for a test where we check everything including flow rates, backpressure, intake temps, and maybe wheel speed. All we need is some injectors and a fueling box. This would make it totally scientific. Of course the loser would have to pay for the dyno

 

[quote author=Push Rod link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=0#129099 date=1050598346]<br>[quote author=Jetpilot link=board=7;threadid=13676;start=0#129080 date=1050595094]<br>1) side trial. I can say though that I never saw the filter minder ever move while running the B-1.<br><br>2) The 50 is just plain a larger charger than the B-1.<br>[/quote]<br><br>1) Maybe your filter is dirty? Seriously though, what you're probably seeing is the simply function of more fuel and the external wastegate increasing flow, versus it being a turbocharger thing. The B1, with a similar setup, would draw your minder down too.<br><br>2) Well, the outside dimensions are definitely larger, however every single thing I've seen on the B1 compressor housing rates it at 925CFM of efficient flow, which is anywhere between 25 - 50 CFM more than 50 wheel is capable of. Of course, Piers has probably worked a little magic in there, but its tough to increase efficiency flow numbers more than 50 or so.<br>[/quote]<br><br>I kinda disagree with this post. Remember JetPilot can now rev to over 4k. Plus the HX50 flows anywhere from 1450-1500 cfm, not 900 cfm. Also the volumetric efficency went up on the engine due to the port job and the better delta P across the engine (boost vs drive pressure).

 

Had to edit that post. Holset has upgraded the compressor wheels for the 50 and 55 series chargers to 100 pounds per minute. Wow! My older 55 will only make 850CFM.



Don~

 

I don't know about flow but I tried an early B1 for a couple of weeks and went back to my PDR HX-40. The B1 did flow more than the HX-40 but it had too much lag for me. And now with Piers newest Super turbo the mighty PDR HX-50. I am here to tell you all the HX-50 is less laggy than that early B1, make more boost faster, and has to deliver more air because my smoke is MIA. :-[