Injecters
09-03-2004, 12:15 AM
#18
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Jammers are junk. I have flow tested the tips for over 6 sets of jammers and they always have an injector off by 6 or 7 lpm. thats they people get such a rough idle with them and lot of smoke. I ran a set of jammers 1's for aw hile and 5 were between 40-41 lpm and one was 45 lpm. Which i'm guessing explained the rough idle and rough running at times. as a comparision 3 flow extrude-hones flow between 37-38lpm on our flow meter. So even jammer ones flow quite a bit. If you are looking for quality go with the mach series injectors. The jammers come from france and our not checked out or flow matched or anything. When we get them for customers we order two sets and can usually make one good set with them. Diesel Dynamics does not even have a flow meter to check them. But if you do go with the jammers you should be able to get them for a lot cheaper than $650.
09-03-2004, 12:32 AM
#19
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I have a set of Mach2s and Comp box and how much smoke I make is 99% controlled with how stupid my right foot is. I live at 5000' and drive with my comp on 3x5 every day. I can easily drive with city traffic with almost no smoke. It's all about not stomping it off idle. With stock hx 35/12 I race around everyday and most of the time don't hit 1300 degrees more than a handful of times. The only time EGTs get out of hand is in 5th gear when standing on it for more than 4-5 seconds. Then 1600 can come quickly as does 95mph lol. I'm getting a b1 and going to try a set of Mach4s. Something tells me that if you don't tow heavy, have a manual tranny, and a well trained right foot, you can get away with a lot more fuel than most people will ever tell you 
09-03-2004, 09:43 AM
#20
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I've made no secret of my bias towards Don's Mach series EDM injectors.
Around this place, we've sold and tested DD's extruded injectors, Bully's, and a variety of off-brand stuff that you never see mentioned (for good reason).
Hands down, Don's Mach series injectors are simply the best on the market, bar none.
We've had flow tests of extruded injectors come back with a 12% differential (those particular ones were DD's) or worse. This does not contribute to smooth running, or making horsepower.
We don't like to hack on competing products around here, but lay a set of Don's EDM injectors down next to ANY other EDM injector on the market. Most EDM injectors are still using a stock style nozzle which was not intended to be EDMed with more holes than stock, and which ARE weakened by the addition of these holes. Thats why you've seen some EDM injector nozzles break off in the engine. Don uses a custom nozzle design and special materials which are designed specifically for EDMing and the application in which the nozzles are intended to be used. When the competing EDM nozzle is wearing out, the Mach nozzle is still going to look (and flow!) like it did when it was new.
Don is also a true craftsman when building these nozzles. There is not a single manufacturer of EDM (or extruded) nozzles who actually OWNS A FLOW BENCH, other than Don. So how do these guys know what their nozzles are flowing? Are you getting a Stage 1 or a stage 4? Or maybe you're getting a set of nozzles with a little of each. We've seen some flow numbers come in from Jammers and other EDM nozzles. With one incredible set of 6, we saw flows between 38l and 51l! Each set of Mach injectors are flowed, and reflowed until they are a genuine matched set with near identical flow numbers.
The Mach injectors are also pop-off matched to under 1%. DD claims 2%, other manufacturers claim 4%. Again, this attention to detail is what sets the Mach injectors apart from the competition.
We've had some customers switch out their Mach injectors for competing EDM injectors. Some of these customers were even granted freebies of higher horsepower injectors to convince them to swap. There was not one single customer who didn't go back the Mach injector. The power of the competing nozzle wasn't there, the smoke was worse, and the idle quality was terrible.
So when your local shop is trying to sell you an injector, I'd ask them to contact Don and get a set of Mach injectors. They may cost a little more, but they are worth every single penny you'll pay for them.
Rod
Around this place, we've sold and tested DD's extruded injectors, Bully's, and a variety of off-brand stuff that you never see mentioned (for good reason).
Hands down, Don's Mach series injectors are simply the best on the market, bar none.
We've had flow tests of extruded injectors come back with a 12% differential (those particular ones were DD's) or worse. This does not contribute to smooth running, or making horsepower.
We don't like to hack on competing products around here, but lay a set of Don's EDM injectors down next to ANY other EDM injector on the market. Most EDM injectors are still using a stock style nozzle which was not intended to be EDMed with more holes than stock, and which ARE weakened by the addition of these holes. Thats why you've seen some EDM injector nozzles break off in the engine. Don uses a custom nozzle design and special materials which are designed specifically for EDMing and the application in which the nozzles are intended to be used. When the competing EDM nozzle is wearing out, the Mach nozzle is still going to look (and flow!) like it did when it was new.
Don is also a true craftsman when building these nozzles. There is not a single manufacturer of EDM (or extruded) nozzles who actually OWNS A FLOW BENCH, other than Don. So how do these guys know what their nozzles are flowing? Are you getting a Stage 1 or a stage 4? Or maybe you're getting a set of nozzles with a little of each. We've seen some flow numbers come in from Jammers and other EDM nozzles. With one incredible set of 6, we saw flows between 38l and 51l! Each set of Mach injectors are flowed, and reflowed until they are a genuine matched set with near identical flow numbers.
The Mach injectors are also pop-off matched to under 1%. DD claims 2%, other manufacturers claim 4%. Again, this attention to detail is what sets the Mach injectors apart from the competition.
We've had some customers switch out their Mach injectors for competing EDM injectors. Some of these customers were even granted freebies of higher horsepower injectors to convince them to swap. There was not one single customer who didn't go back the Mach injector. The power of the competing nozzle wasn't there, the smoke was worse, and the idle quality was terrible.
So when your local shop is trying to sell you an injector, I'd ask them to contact Don and get a set of Mach injectors. They may cost a little more, but they are worth every single penny you'll pay for them.
Rod
09-03-2004, 11:31 AM
#22
DTR Advertiser
dsl-nut,
The HP ratings are all measured at the rear wheels.
Smoke? it all depends on how you drive it. YOu make them smoke like a freight train if use too much pedal without boost.
The HP ratings are all measured at the rear wheels.
Smoke? it all depends on how you drive it. YOu make them smoke like a freight train if use too much pedal without boost.
09-03-2004, 01:02 PM
#25
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Here are some flow rates for 4 sets of DD Jammers that i ran a couple of months ago. They are supposed to be levels 1-4. We ran them becuase the box's didn't get labeled:
Box 1 - 41, 46, 44, 51, 37, 45
Box 2 - 45, 41, 46.5, 48, 46, 44.5
Box 3 - 45, 43.5, 42, 44.5, 42, 49
Box 4 - 41, 40, 46, 40.5, 40 42.5
A couple of days ago i ran 2 sets of DDJammer stage 4's and they were even worse. One injector was 53 and had a low of 41 or 42. So a huge range. My advice about jammers would be to buy two sets and try and find someone the flow test them and pick the best ones. The price is dirt cheap on them. You can get the tips for as much as a set of Bosch 275HP complete injectors.
Box 1 - 41, 46, 44, 51, 37, 45
Box 2 - 45, 41, 46.5, 48, 46, 44.5
Box 3 - 45, 43.5, 42, 44.5, 42, 49
Box 4 - 41, 40, 46, 40.5, 40 42.5
A couple of days ago i ran 2 sets of DDJammer stage 4's and they were even worse. One injector was 53 and had a low of 41 or 42. So a huge range. My advice about jammers would be to buy two sets and try and find someone the flow test them and pick the best ones. The price is dirt cheap on them. You can get the tips for as much as a set of Bosch 275HP complete injectors.
09-07-2004, 03:21 AM
#27
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Some folks balk at the slightly higher price of the Mach injectors...
I tell them this:
If you can't swing the $500 for a set of Mach 1s even, then just get 275s. The RV275s are a proven reliable injector with essentially no risk associated with them. They can be had for about $330 if you shop around.
But I keep coming back to VALUE. Compared to an RV275, the Mach 1s (65hp) are superior in every way. They make about 50% MORE additional power than the 275s. There's essentially no smoke, and the mpg is great-- you can tow with them and clear 13-14mpg (6-speed).
When I installed some Mach 1s in a friend's truck, I was amazed. We tried to make smoke (with stock intake and exhaust) with the EZ set on most aggressive. IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE SMOKE ON PURPOSE-- THEY WERE JUST TOO CLEAN, AND THIS IS OVER 6000 FEET ELEVATION.
My friend went on a trip to SD after we installed these injectors, and never got less than 20mpg on the hwy, hand figured. Best was almost 24 on his 01.5 ETH. Worst was just over 20 (20.3 iirc).
Keep in mind those numbers are from a cold weather (i.e., mostly winter fuel) run, and reflect driving in the windy conditions of Wyoming and the Dakotas.
Impressive? I certainly thought so!
**Disclaimer-- your mileage may vary (pun intended)**
I tell them this:
If you can't swing the $500 for a set of Mach 1s even, then just get 275s. The RV275s are a proven reliable injector with essentially no risk associated with them. They can be had for about $330 if you shop around.
But I keep coming back to VALUE. Compared to an RV275, the Mach 1s (65hp) are superior in every way. They make about 50% MORE additional power than the 275s. There's essentially no smoke, and the mpg is great-- you can tow with them and clear 13-14mpg (6-speed).
When I installed some Mach 1s in a friend's truck, I was amazed. We tried to make smoke (with stock intake and exhaust) with the EZ set on most aggressive. IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE SMOKE ON PURPOSE-- THEY WERE JUST TOO CLEAN, AND THIS IS OVER 6000 FEET ELEVATION.
My friend went on a trip to SD after we installed these injectors, and never got less than 20mpg on the hwy, hand figured. Best was almost 24 on his 01.5 ETH. Worst was just over 20 (20.3 iirc).
Keep in mind those numbers are from a cold weather (i.e., mostly winter fuel) run, and reflect driving in the windy conditions of Wyoming and the Dakotas.
Impressive? I certainly thought so!
**Disclaimer-- your mileage may vary (pun intended)**
10-02-2004, 12:54 PM
#29
Registered User
Don
In answer to your question... Finally re-dynoed with the Mach 2.0's.
The 346 hp I did at Lewisville Dyno Day was in 3rd gear...had long ago been told this was the best way??
Went back to Lewisville today and am now 429 hp in 3rd. Guy there said should be doing it in OD. Tried that and got 460.2 hp/980.4 Ft/lbs.
So, apples to apples (both in 3rd) picked up 83 hp moving from your older version Mach 1.5's to new 2.0's. The earlier Lewisville test was with KSB1-2 turbo which may account for 10-15 hp of the 83 difference.
I love them..thanks for all your help getting me where I wanted to be.
RJ
The 346 hp I did at Lewisville Dyno Day was in 3rd gear...had long ago been told this was the best way??
Went back to Lewisville today and am now 429 hp in 3rd. Guy there said should be doing it in OD. Tried that and got 460.2 hp/980.4 Ft/lbs.
So, apples to apples (both in 3rd) picked up 83 hp moving from your older version Mach 1.5's to new 2.0's. The earlier Lewisville test was with KSB1-2 turbo which may account for 10-15 hp of the 83 difference.
I love them..thanks for all your help getting me where I wanted to be.
RJ
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