Exhaust Brake Question
08-29-2011, 11:47 AM
#31
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Thread Starter
totalloser, you are correct. It is wired to the APPS with a switch on the dash. I've looked into a shifter switch but haven't seen any I like so far. Push-Pull claims to rattle and be noisy.
I have about two seconds of delay before the brake engages, which allows me to shift without having to shut off the brake. That part is nice. It only engages after the delay when the throttle is all the way up.
The brake comes off with the clutch pressed in, so no chirping the tires on down shift, due to the delay before re-engage.
It is also hooked to the temp sensor to apply the brake till the engine temp is up. I disconnected that as I didn't like it as hot out as it is, for the time being.
Having it hooked to the temp sensor, it also seemed to mess with my Edge with Attitude. With it disconnected I haven't had any problems.
A down side, I think, is that it only comes on if your above 30 mph. If your under 30, no brake if you have interupted it by downshifting or reving the engine to catch a gear. If you don't interupt it, it will apply down to 15 mph before it shuts off.
I have about two seconds of delay before the brake engages, which allows me to shift without having to shut off the brake. That part is nice. It only engages after the delay when the throttle is all the way up.
The brake comes off with the clutch pressed in, so no chirping the tires on down shift, due to the delay before re-engage.
It is also hooked to the temp sensor to apply the brake till the engine temp is up. I disconnected that as I didn't like it as hot out as it is, for the time being.
Having it hooked to the temp sensor, it also seemed to mess with my Edge with Attitude. With it disconnected I haven't had any problems.
A down side, I think, is that it only comes on if your above 30 mph. If your under 30, no brake if you have interupted it by downshifting or reving the engine to catch a gear. If you don't interupt it, it will apply down to 15 mph before it shuts off.
08-29-2011, 12:16 PM
#32
Registered User
totalloser, you are correct. It is wired to the APPS with a switch on the dash. I've looked into a shifter switch but haven't seen any I like so far. Push-Pull claims to rattle and be noisy.
I have about two seconds of delay before the brake engages, which allows me to shift without having to shut off the brake. That part is nice. It only engages after the delay when the throttle is all the way up.
The brake comes off with the clutch pressed in, so no chirping the tires on down shift, due to the delay before re-engage.
It is also hooked to the temp sensor to apply the brake till the engine temp is up. I disconnected that as I didn't like it as hot out as it is, for the time being.
Having it hooked to the temp sensor, it also seemed to mess with my Edge with Attitude. With it disconnected I haven't had any problems.
A down side, I think, is that it only comes on if your above 30 mph. If your under 30, no brake if you have interupted it by downshifting or reving the engine to catch a gear. If you don't interupt it, it will apply down to 15 mph before it shuts off.
I have about two seconds of delay before the brake engages, which allows me to shift without having to shut off the brake. That part is nice. It only engages after the delay when the throttle is all the way up.
The brake comes off with the clutch pressed in, so no chirping the tires on down shift, due to the delay before re-engage.
It is also hooked to the temp sensor to apply the brake till the engine temp is up. I disconnected that as I didn't like it as hot out as it is, for the time being.
Having it hooked to the temp sensor, it also seemed to mess with my Edge with Attitude. With it disconnected I haven't had any problems.
A down side, I think, is that it only comes on if your above 30 mph. If your under 30, no brake if you have interupted it by downshifting or reving the engine to catch a gear. If you don't interupt it, it will apply down to 15 mph before it shuts off.
Anyways, Pacbrake has a really cool and functional shifter mounted switch.
08-29-2011, 08:02 PM
#33
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I've never heard of the ecm application either and quite honestly I wouldn't want it anyways.
Mine is directly wired and I control it. I can use the brake right down to zero miles per hour. Use it to warm up anytime I want, immediate engagement, etc, etc.
The one concern I would have with the ecm running the show is if the brake sticks and they do, what happens then?
The two speed rear end switch that is most commonly used as a shifter switch can and does rattle on occasion but most cases you can't hear it even if you wanted to being the 2nd Gens are noisy.
Auto disengage on the clutch would be cool but doing it manually is a hoot when you really get going.
Jeff
Mine is directly wired and I control it. I can use the brake right down to zero miles per hour. Use it to warm up anytime I want, immediate engagement, etc, etc.
The one concern I would have with the ecm running the show is if the brake sticks and they do, what happens then?
The two speed rear end switch that is most commonly used as a shifter switch can and does rattle on occasion but most cases you can't hear it even if you wanted to being the 2nd Gens are noisy.
Auto disengage on the clutch would be cool but doing it manually is a hoot when you really get going.
Jeff
08-30-2011, 08:24 PM
#35
Wow, it sounds like they take a good brake design and make it completely suck butt with the electronics.
Having a setup that uses it as a warmup valve WILL foul the AIT sensor due to combustion gasses burping back into the intake, and the two second delay must REALLY suck. So no benefit in speed from the Apps sensor hookup. Also very minimal benefit from a shifter switch.
Contrast with my BD is that it's on so quick you can't even measure the engagement time. I'll say that the clutch cut out must be a nice feature, though. Mine doesn't have that, so I toggle between shifts.
I wonder if you could pitch the microswitch and get a BD one to control the brake so that you get instant brake engagement?
I would be SOOOOOPER bummed if mine didn't work below 15mph. I roll up to stop signs and hardly touch the service brakes using the exhaust brake with mine. (I guess it's silly but it sounds super mean, too!) Low speeds is where the full closure really shines compared to partial closure.
The BD wiring has a microswitch thing that the toggle and apps wiring goes to, and from there it controls a vacuum 4 port solenoid to route vac to both sides of the piston actuator. If this sounds pretty familiar, I would SERIOUSLY consider using their control setup so YOU have control of the brake instead of the dumbed down 2 second delay and no low speed op. This sounds like a real bummer, but might be easy to modify to something more effective.
Having a setup that uses it as a warmup valve WILL foul the AIT sensor due to combustion gasses burping back into the intake, and the two second delay must REALLY suck. So no benefit in speed from the Apps sensor hookup. Also very minimal benefit from a shifter switch.
Contrast with my BD is that it's on so quick you can't even measure the engagement time. I'll say that the clutch cut out must be a nice feature, though. Mine doesn't have that, so I toggle between shifts.
I wonder if you could pitch the microswitch and get a BD one to control the brake so that you get instant brake engagement?
I would be SOOOOOPER bummed if mine didn't work below 15mph. I roll up to stop signs and hardly touch the service brakes using the exhaust brake with mine. (I guess it's silly but it sounds super mean, too!) Low speeds is where the full closure really shines compared to partial closure.
The BD wiring has a microswitch thing that the toggle and apps wiring goes to, and from there it controls a vacuum 4 port solenoid to route vac to both sides of the piston actuator. If this sounds pretty familiar, I would SERIOUSLY consider using their control setup so YOU have control of the brake instead of the dumbed down 2 second delay and no low speed op. This sounds like a real bummer, but might be easy to modify to something more effective.
08-31-2011, 10:57 AM
#36
Registered User
totalloser, the delay is hardly noticeable and its not a "full" 2 seconds either but somewhere between 1-1.5 seconds. And not only does that small amount of time give me a minor delay to allow shifting but it also keeps the EB from coming on every second I happen to not be on the throttle. Some like that, some dont. I do.
Also, the warm up feature is kinda cool but I understood that only the 3rd gen trucks had this feature and when it was activated then the EB was only partially on instead of fully on, which yes, you're correct, when the EB is fully on then it fouls up the IAT. Also, in warm up mode the EB automatically shuts off at something like 170*-180* so as to not chance overheating if no ones in the truck.
And as I've said before, I would really like it if my EB automatically shut off around 20 mph or slower so that I dont have to toggle it every time I come up to a stop light/sign. The EB isnt really functional below that speed unless I'm downshifting into 2nd or 1st, which I rarely do.
But really, I'm not sure how 01RAMer has any of those features since I've been told that no 2nd gen EB offers that. But good for him if he found one that does.
Also, the warm up feature is kinda cool but I understood that only the 3rd gen trucks had this feature and when it was activated then the EB was only partially on instead of fully on, which yes, you're correct, when the EB is fully on then it fouls up the IAT. Also, in warm up mode the EB automatically shuts off at something like 170*-180* so as to not chance overheating if no ones in the truck.
And as I've said before, I would really like it if my EB automatically shut off around 20 mph or slower so that I dont have to toggle it every time I come up to a stop light/sign. The EB isnt really functional below that speed unless I'm downshifting into 2nd or 1st, which I rarely do.
But really, I'm not sure how 01RAMer has any of those features since I've been told that no 2nd gen EB offers that. But good for him if he found one that does.
08-31-2011, 12:01 PM
#38
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08-31-2011, 12:13 PM
#39
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Thread Starter
Yeah, I do remember them. As far as the delay, on the one I just installed, the delay is quite noticible, but it is fine and I can live with that. I hate that it won't come on below 30mph.
The warm up feature goes off after engine temp reaches 125 degrees.
I've never had an EB so what I'm telling you is what I got, with the exception of the Clutch disengage, I may have mis-spoken on that. I use to drive tractor-trailer and got use to using throttle for downshifting, and with this unit, as soon as you touch the throttle, the EB is disconnected and if your under 30mph, it won't come back on.
The warm up feature goes off after engine temp reaches 125 degrees.
I've never had an EB so what I'm telling you is what I got, with the exception of the Clutch disengage, I may have mis-spoken on that. I use to drive tractor-trailer and got use to using throttle for downshifting, and with this unit, as soon as you touch the throttle, the EB is disconnected and if your under 30mph, it won't come back on.
08-31-2011, 12:23 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
Oh, another gotta with the banks, is that if it is engaged, the cruise control is defeated. If I want cruise, I have to shut off the EB, but if I'm using it cruise and flip on the EB, the cruise is shut off. With what KATOOM is tell us, I kinda wish I had the older model without all these new features.
08-31-2011, 02:00 PM
#41
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My Pacbrake works along with the cruise since the ECM is controlling the EB. Maybe you need to contact Banks and ask them if there's a way to turn functions on or off.
09-01-2011, 09:56 PM
#43
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My EB works with the cruise.
When I'm on cruise and flip on the brake, the smoke is god awful coming out the pipe from the cruise throttling the motor up and the brake trying to slow it down
Great for tailgaters!
Jeff
When I'm on cruise and flip on the brake, the smoke is god awful coming out the pipe from the cruise throttling the motor up and the brake trying to slow it down
Great for tailgaters!
Jeff
09-01-2011, 10:31 PM
#44
Registered User
Jeff, that doesn't make sense. If your ECM is truly controlling the EB then the throttle and EB should never overlap. Unless you are meaning that your EB just happens to work with the cruise simply because there's nothing wired in to disable one or the other. Which actually could pose a serious EGT situation if the EB happen to stick closed which the cruise throttled, but I'm sure you watch that closely.
09-01-2011, 11:03 PM
#45
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My EB is not controlled in any way by the ECM, it's all my control.
Mine is directly wired to power and I control the switch.
Back in 02 when it was installed, the "only" electronics of any kind offered was a kit to over ride the brake when cruise is used on the 6spd trucks. I never even got that option.
It's all manual and honestly I prefer it this way. The way I look at, when on cruise, I don't need the EB. If I stab the clutch for a downshift, the cruise comes off anyways and my hand is on the shifter right with the switch for the EB. Easy as pie to use when needed.
On cold mornings, flame the old girl up and hit the EB, warm in minutes and it stays there until I turn it off. Great for those -40 Alberta days when your sitting in traffic, pull the brake and keep the heat in the motor.
This old girl has idles for many many hours on end in the winter at full operating temp and the only thing bad about it is it burns fuel at a higher rate than just a regular idle. EGT's have never been a concern during long idle periods with the EB on.
Sure it mucks up the IAT and MAP sensor but cleaning them just becomes regular maintenance during oil changes. Only adds a 1/2 hour or so to everything else I have to do to it.
Jeff
Mine is directly wired to power and I control the switch.
Back in 02 when it was installed, the "only" electronics of any kind offered was a kit to over ride the brake when cruise is used on the 6spd trucks. I never even got that option.
It's all manual and honestly I prefer it this way. The way I look at, when on cruise, I don't need the EB. If I stab the clutch for a downshift, the cruise comes off anyways and my hand is on the shifter right with the switch for the EB. Easy as pie to use when needed.
On cold mornings, flame the old girl up and hit the EB, warm in minutes and it stays there until I turn it off. Great for those -40 Alberta days when your sitting in traffic, pull the brake and keep the heat in the motor.
This old girl has idles for many many hours on end in the winter at full operating temp and the only thing bad about it is it burns fuel at a higher rate than just a regular idle. EGT's have never been a concern during long idle periods with the EB on.
Sure it mucks up the IAT and MAP sensor but cleaning them just becomes regular maintenance during oil changes. Only adds a 1/2 hour or so to everything else I have to do to it.
Jeff