Emjay Strategy Controller
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From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
DTT Questions -- Re-Re-post <br><br>I just posted this earlier on the TDR. Bill, can you answer these questions?<br><br>Since DTT has not answered the questions that I posted nearly two weeks ago regarding bind-up, I have re-posted them starting with the fourth paragraph below. [Bill], please provide answers to as many of those questions as you can. <br><br>The only definitive answer that I have read so far is that dropping the governor pressure 40 PSI causes "severe bind up". Zero governor pressure is attained by applying the maximum current through the governor pressure solenoid. Since the PCM controls governor solenoid current, it would immediately detect such a large disparity, and go into limp mode. The PCM achieves limp mode by removing all power to the transmission by opening the trans relay. That causes max governor pressure (zero governor solenoid current) and no lockup or OD. The governor pressure is inversely proportional to the current through the governor solenoid, so zero current = max pressure, zero pressure = max current. <br><br>The Strategy controller does not intercept or monitor the governor solenoid current, so it cannot change the current through it. The Strategy controller does not intercept or monitor the governor pressure sensor signal, either. The Strategy controller varies the excitation voltage to the governor pressure sensor, which has the effect of scaling the governor pressure sensor output by as much as +/- 20% if desired. Adding a resistor to the governor pressure excitation voltage lead does the same thing, the difference is that the Strategy controller adjusts the voltage dynamically based on throttle position and/or speed. Emjay Engineering LLC has a patent pending on this technology. You still retain the full diagnostic protection provided by the PCM because the closed loop comprised of the governor pressure solenoid and governor pressure sensor remains intact. <br><br>Anyway, here's the questions. In order to determine whether a bind-up is even possible with a PCM controlling the transmission, we need to know the various transmission parameters when a bind-up is triggered using your test box. Some parameters may not be measurable without considerable instrumentation, but where practical, provide: <br><br>1. Manual valve position, and whether it is accurately located in its detent <br><br>2. State of the following transmission clutches and bands: <br>a) Front clutch <br>b) Front Band <br>c) Rear Clutch <br>d) Rear Band <br>e) Overrun Clutch <br><br>3. State of the following overdrive clutches: <br>a) Overdrive Clutch <br>b) Direct Clutch <br>c) Overrun Clutch <br><br>4. The following pressures at bind up: <br>a) Rear servo <br>b) Governor <br>c) Accumulator <br>d) Overdrive Clutch <br><br>5. Current measured through the governor solenoid <br><br>6. Voltage at the signal (output) lead of governor pressure sensor <br><br>7. State of the TCC and OD solenoids <br><br>8. Position of the remaining valves in the valve body: <br><br>a) Shuttle Valve <br>b) 1-2 Shift control valve <br>c) Throttle Valve <br>d) Kickdown Valve <br>e) Boost Valve <br>f) L/U switch valve <br>g) 3-4 Quick fill valve <br>h) 3-4 timing valve <br>i) 3-4 shift valve <br>j) Lockup valve <br>k) Lockup timing valve <br>l) Accumulator <br><br>9. Engine RPM<br><br>
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
I received my controller last week,not installed yet. I'm looking forward to Lary's posts and pictures of <br>the install and setup. I keep reading all these posts, between the DTR and TDR regarding this "bindup <br>shift". What "I" get out of it is this, can the transmission be made to go into a "bindup", I'd say yes, Bill <br>has proved it using " a pressure gauge and transmission diagnostic machines that alot of shops have".<br>Now, the simple question is, Using Emjays controller and properly installed, with the protection provided<br>by the stock PCM, has anyone proved it can cause a bindup shift??? "I've" not read that it has. So, until<br>theres an " Actual" problem with this unit, I will be using it. By the way I too have the DTT TC and VB, <br>they have worked very well for me. One other thing, if there is an "actual" problem, don't you think it <br>can be corrected or updated??? I'm sure Bill has needed to "correct and update" since I bought my tranny<br>stuff almost 2 years ago. Thanks, Dave.
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
DDM I agree with you completely. Fixing a problem that may not exist makes no sense to me either, and obviously if one is uncovered a fix would be quickly found. <br><br> As of this moment none of the test models are having this type of problem but then that tends to lead one to believe a problem will occur only if going outside the parameters that the controller posseses.<br><br> I have a great set of pressure gauges with long enough hoses to monitor my entire testing procedure. I also have the combined knowledge of several professional technicians helping me to push it past my own capabilities. Although after reading the Technical manuals that I have studied, I can tell you the 47RE is hardly the mystery that many would have you believe.<br><br> Goodluck on your install and I will be adding my first addition shortly.
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From: Austria Europe
Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
There is something I'd like to understand about automatic transmissiond for the Dodge RAM: Do these critters contain some drugs that modify the brains of their users or something the like? I have never seen a tranny thread that wasn't at least on the edge to name calling and insult. <br>I have been reading and posting on the tdr and the DTT forum. <br>I have expressed my interest in the working of many things, lots of which I really wouldn't consider buying. But only on tranny threads you get quoted out of context, accusations get construed out of marginal errors in explaining. <br>When I posted that I had bought a DTT transmission and why I had done so, some of the answers were sounding like the speeches of religious fundamentalists. I can just say that I do not regret having bought a DTT tranny. I do not, and never did, comment on the other suppliers of transmissions. Simply because I do not have any experience with them. <br>I can understand each businessman being concerned about where his money goes- I can understand the positions of DTT and ATS. They do compete for customers. So they will not praise the other and pound their chest and say the other is better 
<br>But what I do not understand is that customers who have bought any one tranny start bashing the buyers of the other tranny.<br>I do think that internet forums are there to help gather information. So if anybody who has any true firsthand info about a product posts it, anybody else posts his or her experiences, opinions etc and does so in a civilized manner everybody can learn here. <br>I do not have a dog in this hunt simply because my setup gives me the shiftpoints I need and since I do not want to modify them I will not buy any controller.<br>So why do I post here- first out of interest in any internal working of transmissions, engines, drivetrains etc.<br>second: to train my english. <br>So please go on with good technical discussions, so both of my goals can be achieved ( pure egoism speaking here). <br>Everybody have a good new year, and the health to enjoy the success you shall have 
<br><br>AlpineRAM
<br>But what I do not understand is that customers who have bought any one tranny start bashing the buyers of the other tranny.<br>I do think that internet forums are there to help gather information. So if anybody who has any true firsthand info about a product posts it, anybody else posts his or her experiences, opinions etc and does so in a civilized manner everybody can learn here. <br>I do not have a dog in this hunt simply because my setup gives me the shiftpoints I need and since I do not want to modify them I will not buy any controller.<br>So why do I post here- first out of interest in any internal working of transmissions, engines, drivetrains etc.<br>second: to train my english. <br>So please go on with good technical discussions, so both of my goals can be achieved ( pure egoism speaking here). <br>Everybody have a good new year, and the health to enjoy the success you shall have <br><br>AlpineRAM
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=7;threadid=8406;start=60#87225 date=1041505493]<br>There is something I'd like to understand about automatic transmissiond for the Dodge RAM: Do these critters contain some drugs that modify the brains of their users or something the like? <br>AlpineRAM <br>[/quote]<br><br>Same thing happens with Oil threads. Very strange 
I don't have a Pit Bull in the hunt but do enjoy the information exchange. The best part of these exchanges is the technical information is usually very good. I agree that people try and pick a part your words to try and prove their point. I am interested in seeing where this $10,000 challenge will end up. Looks like the bet is on based on a post on the TDR and DTT forums.
I don't have a Pit Bull in the hunt but do enjoy the information exchange. The best part of these exchanges is the technical information is usually very good. I agree that people try and pick a part your words to try and prove their point. I am interested in seeing where this $10,000 challenge will end up. Looks like the bet is on based on a post on the TDR and DTT forums.
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
Here is a copy of the post made by Joel Richards mentioned above. Its rather long but VERY informative. If Joel wants to post this himself I will delete this copy.
DTT Challenge accepted!
First off, let me start by saying that I am absolutely amazed that any company (edit: DTT) can put up a forum specifically to bash competition. As I have said in the past, without competition, what would our product choices be, and how inferior would those products be.
Now, regarding the ATS “patent pending” issue… I have seen, with my own two eyes, the patent application document which was accepted by the US Patent Office. There was a number, in issue 35 of the TDR that said “pat# 4710300” – this number, the ATS part number at the time, when broken down means exactly this –
47 – 47 series transmissions (Dodge)
10 – Torque converter subcode (Valve body was 20, Commander 30, etc…)
3 – Triple disc (if it were a 1 it would be a single disc TC)
00 – 2 digits added to all initial part numbers for versioning/revisioning
The ad in the TDR did not state anything about “Patent Pending” either (PM me or StakeMan and we’ll send you a copy of the ad of you want). Due to the “Pending” nature of the patent, as ANY patent attorney will tell you, keep everything close to your chest until the full patent is granted - you can be stung hard by people who wish you harm before the grant. When the patent is released (projected 3Q 2003), everyone will know that this childish spewing of BS was a feeble attempt by some to discredit ATS and their efforts because they happened to have a good idea, and had the good sense to take it to market and protect themselves with a patent – what will you all say when the patent is released, dated quite some time ago and you are proven wrong? Apologies? I would hope so, but I doubt it…
Now, on to the point of my post…
I think that everyone reading this needs to understand what an Electronic Governor is, and does, in an Automatic Transmission. The governor regulates pressure to the shift valves (valve body) – period. Basically, when your vehicle shifts from 1st to 2nd to 3rd , the governor is governing pressure to the shift valves which causes the transmission to apply oil to the correct circuits in the valve body to perform shifting.
What is governor pressure:
The easiest way to explain what the governor is, is this: Think of it as comparable to a speedometer in your vehicle – at 0 vehicle speed, pressure is 0, at maximum vehicle speed, governor pressure matches your specific transmissions’ maximum line pressure. In this case, governor pressure would match your vehicle speed. Stock Governor pressure has no spikes – it does not shoot up, it does not shoot down – it is a steady, gradual build of pressure, or release of pressure. When thinking about the operation of a mechanical governor it is important to think of it as a mechanical speedometer. Pressure goes up, pressure goes down. That’s all. This is how governor pressure has operated for the last 50 years in every manufactures transmission that shifts automatically, not just Chrysler - All of them. The A-904 push button transmission released around 1960 is a good example of this - yes this is the predecessor of what we know as the 47-RE. Basically, the evolution of the 47 series started with the A-727 transmission then to the 46 then 47-RH then 47-RE, and now the 48-RE (there are some permutations in between these – this is a basic timeline).
Now, the fun starts with the introduction of the electronic governor. The electronic governor just replaced the hydraulic governor. Nothing else changed in the transmission from the RH (“H” means hydraulic) to the RE (“E” means electronic). It is more efficient to have an electronic governor, and it was most likely changed to meet government standards that were put into effect at the time for fuel economy, emissions, etc...
Now, when the engineers at Chrysler, GM, Ford, and others designed their transmissions, they built in fail-safes. If parts, either electrical or mechanics fail, what happens to the transmission (most of the time – there are always exceptions) – usually it goes into “limp mode, fail-safe, safe-mode” – it has many names, but they all mean the same thing. The transmission prevents itself from further harm by not allowing itself to do anything but get you from where you happen to be to the transmission shop, or nowhere at all without a tow truck. How many times have you heard on the news or read in the newspaper that a transmission governor caused that big accident because it caused the transmission to bind-up? I haven’t seen or heard of it happening either…
So, when the electronic governor is working its “magic”, it pulses. These pulses open and close the orifice which feeds the shift valves (snap valves) at a specific rate so as to increase or decrease pressure – the slower the pulse, the more fluid is let through the orifice (higher pressure), the faster the pulse, less fluid is let through (lower pressure). Now, to shift the transmission, there is only one fluid flow (source) to the shift valve – the valve that it feeds is like an exclusive on switch – either it is at one end of the valve bore, or at the other end. In the middle of the bore, you have no fluid channel open for fluid transfer (not a bind – you just aren’t in a gear essentially) – you can only have fluid transfer when the valve is at either end of the bore. These valves are “snap valves” – they do not move slowly into position at either end of the bore – they snap from end to end. To snap from one end of the bore to the other, you must have more force on one side of the valve than the opposing force on the other side. Like tug of war, or arm wrestling – the stronger side wins… This is the job of the governor – it increases or decreases the pressure to allow the shift valve to overcome opposing pressure (higher pressure) or to submit to opposing pressure (lower pressure) which causes the transmission to upshift or downshift. Seeing as how there is only one feed oil circuit to the valve in the valve body, and the valves are snap valves, how on earth could you possibly cause a bind-up in the transmission when you regulate the electronic governor?
Inside the PCM, there is a “second computer” called the TCM – they are really the same computer, just split into to specific functions – engine control and transmission control. Keep in mind that the simple explanation below is just that – a simple explanation – we can certainly get into more of a detailed explanation if it is needed. Now, let’s say for ease of understanding that your transmission builds 100psi of pressure at 100mph – these numbers are fictitious, used to put everyone on a common ground, so please don’t quote them as “hey, that pressure can’t be achieved at that speed, etc…”.
First off, let me start by saying that I am absolutely amazed that any company (edit: DTT) can put up a forum specifically to bash competition. As I have said in the past, without competition, what would our product choices be, and how inferior would those products be.
Now, regarding the ATS “patent pending” issue… I have seen, with my own two eyes, the patent application document which was accepted by the US Patent Office. There was a number, in issue 35 of the TDR that said “pat# 4710300” – this number, the ATS part number at the time, when broken down means exactly this –
47 – 47 series transmissions (Dodge)
10 – Torque converter subcode (Valve body was 20, Commander 30, etc…)
3 – Triple disc (if it were a 1 it would be a single disc TC)
00 – 2 digits added to all initial part numbers for versioning/revisioning
The ad in the TDR did not state anything about “Patent Pending” either (PM me or StakeMan and we’ll send you a copy of the ad of you want). Due to the “Pending” nature of the patent, as ANY patent attorney will tell you, keep everything close to your chest until the full patent is granted - you can be stung hard by people who wish you harm before the grant. When the patent is released (projected 3Q 2003), everyone will know that this childish spewing of BS was a feeble attempt by some to discredit ATS and their efforts because they happened to have a good idea, and had the good sense to take it to market and protect themselves with a patent – what will you all say when the patent is released, dated quite some time ago and you are proven wrong? Apologies? I would hope so, but I doubt it…
Now, on to the point of my post…
I think that everyone reading this needs to understand what an Electronic Governor is, and does, in an Automatic Transmission. The governor regulates pressure to the shift valves (valve body) – period. Basically, when your vehicle shifts from 1st to 2nd to 3rd , the governor is governing pressure to the shift valves which causes the transmission to apply oil to the correct circuits in the valve body to perform shifting.
What is governor pressure:
The easiest way to explain what the governor is, is this: Think of it as comparable to a speedometer in your vehicle – at 0 vehicle speed, pressure is 0, at maximum vehicle speed, governor pressure matches your specific transmissions’ maximum line pressure. In this case, governor pressure would match your vehicle speed. Stock Governor pressure has no spikes – it does not shoot up, it does not shoot down – it is a steady, gradual build of pressure, or release of pressure. When thinking about the operation of a mechanical governor it is important to think of it as a mechanical speedometer. Pressure goes up, pressure goes down. That’s all. This is how governor pressure has operated for the last 50 years in every manufactures transmission that shifts automatically, not just Chrysler - All of them. The A-904 push button transmission released around 1960 is a good example of this - yes this is the predecessor of what we know as the 47-RE. Basically, the evolution of the 47 series started with the A-727 transmission then to the 46 then 47-RH then 47-RE, and now the 48-RE (there are some permutations in between these – this is a basic timeline).
Now, the fun starts with the introduction of the electronic governor. The electronic governor just replaced the hydraulic governor. Nothing else changed in the transmission from the RH (“H” means hydraulic) to the RE (“E” means electronic). It is more efficient to have an electronic governor, and it was most likely changed to meet government standards that were put into effect at the time for fuel economy, emissions, etc...
Now, when the engineers at Chrysler, GM, Ford, and others designed their transmissions, they built in fail-safes. If parts, either electrical or mechanics fail, what happens to the transmission (most of the time – there are always exceptions) – usually it goes into “limp mode, fail-safe, safe-mode” – it has many names, but they all mean the same thing. The transmission prevents itself from further harm by not allowing itself to do anything but get you from where you happen to be to the transmission shop, or nowhere at all without a tow truck. How many times have you heard on the news or read in the newspaper that a transmission governor caused that big accident because it caused the transmission to bind-up? I haven’t seen or heard of it happening either…
So, when the electronic governor is working its “magic”, it pulses. These pulses open and close the orifice which feeds the shift valves (snap valves) at a specific rate so as to increase or decrease pressure – the slower the pulse, the more fluid is let through the orifice (higher pressure), the faster the pulse, less fluid is let through (lower pressure). Now, to shift the transmission, there is only one fluid flow (source) to the shift valve – the valve that it feeds is like an exclusive on switch – either it is at one end of the valve bore, or at the other end. In the middle of the bore, you have no fluid channel open for fluid transfer (not a bind – you just aren’t in a gear essentially) – you can only have fluid transfer when the valve is at either end of the bore. These valves are “snap valves” – they do not move slowly into position at either end of the bore – they snap from end to end. To snap from one end of the bore to the other, you must have more force on one side of the valve than the opposing force on the other side. Like tug of war, or arm wrestling – the stronger side wins… This is the job of the governor – it increases or decreases the pressure to allow the shift valve to overcome opposing pressure (higher pressure) or to submit to opposing pressure (lower pressure) which causes the transmission to upshift or downshift. Seeing as how there is only one feed oil circuit to the valve in the valve body, and the valves are snap valves, how on earth could you possibly cause a bind-up in the transmission when you regulate the electronic governor?
Inside the PCM, there is a “second computer” called the TCM – they are really the same computer, just split into to specific functions – engine control and transmission control. Keep in mind that the simple explanation below is just that – a simple explanation – we can certainly get into more of a detailed explanation if it is needed. Now, let’s say for ease of understanding that your transmission builds 100psi of pressure at 100mph – these numbers are fictitious, used to put everyone on a common ground, so please don’t quote them as “hey, that pressure can’t be achieved at that speed, etc…”.
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
<br>So, with this in mind, at idle, governor pressure is at 0psi. At 100mph, governor pressure is at 100psi. When you start moving the vehicle, the governor steadily starts pulsing faster, thus building pressure to the shift valve(s). The pressure is not enough yet to oppose the force of the shift valve, so you remain in first gear. As you get going faster, pressure builds until – bang, you upshift. Lets say that when that happens, governor pressure to the shift valve is 25psi. This means that the opposing force to keep it in the prior gear was less than 25psi. So, if the governor lowers pressure to less than 25psi, you will downshift because the pressure on the other side of the valve can overcome the governor pressure to cause the valve to snap to the other end of the bore. Now, lets say that when you shifted you were going 25mph. If you speed up to 30mph, for instance, the TCM would be commanding 30psi from the governor. At 35mph, 35psi, etc… So, if you were going 35mph, and you used an outside influence such as the Trans X to command the governor to lower pressure to 24psi, you would downshift, not bind-up. Now, I know what you’re thinking – what if you’re going 100mph and you command the governor to lower pressure to 24psi, or 0psi?? Bad news, right? Wrong! I spoke of the fail-safes that the engineers put into the transmission. I’ll bet that plenty governors failed at highway speeds during the last 50 years. The vehicles don’t bind-up when it happens… They go into limp-mode because the PCM sees the “failure” condition and cuts all power to the transmission (solenoids, governor, etc) thus allowing an equalization of pressure, not a bind up scenario. This is BASICALLY how the Electronic Governor works on a failure – if you want to know how fail-safe on the Hydraulic Governor works, I’ll happily post in another thread, because it’s obviously different because of the lack of electronics… <br><br>So, since the factory TCM is the computer that controls the governor circuit, and under completely normal operation the TCM is constantly changing governor pressure to match vehicle speed (remember – the governor is comparable to a speedo), how on earth can interaction with the governor cause a bind-up? The only thing that you can do by controlling the governor circuit is cause upshifts and downshifts, or make the transmission go into fail-safe. <br><br>So, Bill Kondolay, I accept your challenge. I will provide a truck, with a stock transmission straight from the dealer for you to prove your bind up theory of causing bind up shifts by taking control of the electronic governor. I’ll also put up my truck, which has the Stage IV ATS transmission and TC – I have a friend who has a DTT, and I bet he would even be willing to put up his truck as well. Given the simple way a governor works, and the mechanical limitations of how the shift valve(s) shift the transmission, the only way a bind up can happen is by mechanical failure – something breaks – but that can happen (and does happen) in completely stock applications. If this can happen in the DTT transmission, you have done something to cause the built in safety measures to be bypassed. <br>
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
In answer to your challenge: It’s this simple – you said
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just make this simple , $ 10,000 says the governor circuit CAN cause a bind up shift. The governor CAN cause a pressure drop in 3rd gear. You know the saying money talks, bull**** walks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t believe it – you said it - money talks, bull**** walks. Hook up your Trans X to the truck(s). Control THE GOVERNOR CIRCUIT ONLY to cause bind up shifting. “Bind Up” is not in the Websters dictionary - “Bind Up”, as most people reading this I believe would understand it is that essentially the vehicle will cease to move. Stephan said
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill made the rear end of the truck lockup
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good enough explanation of "Bind Up" for me... Something inside the transmission will “bind” preventing movement in either direction – at highway speeds, there is a good chance that something will break, in fact.
Bill, feel free to email me so we can set up a time and place to get this done. As soon as we mutually agree on time and place, we’ll let everyone know when and where it is so that they can all be there to see what happens.
Thanks to everyone for reading, and learning – Stay tuned, there’s more to come, I’m sure…
Joel Richards
P.S. I'm posting this on the TDR, DTR as well as DTT.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just make this simple , $ 10,000 says the governor circuit CAN cause a bind up shift. The governor CAN cause a pressure drop in 3rd gear. You know the saying money talks, bull**** walks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t believe it – you said it - money talks, bull**** walks. Hook up your Trans X to the truck(s). Control THE GOVERNOR CIRCUIT ONLY to cause bind up shifting. “Bind Up” is not in the Websters dictionary - “Bind Up”, as most people reading this I believe would understand it is that essentially the vehicle will cease to move. Stephan said
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill made the rear end of the truck lockup
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good enough explanation of "Bind Up" for me... Something inside the transmission will “bind” preventing movement in either direction – at highway speeds, there is a good chance that something will break, in fact.
Bill, feel free to email me so we can set up a time and place to get this done. As soon as we mutually agree on time and place, we’ll let everyone know when and where it is so that they can all be there to see what happens.
Thanks to everyone for reading, and learning – Stay tuned, there’s more to come, I’m sure…
Joel Richards
P.S. I'm posting this on the TDR, DTR as well as DTT.
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From: Austria Europe
Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
Pit Bull:<br>Yep I am interested in the 10k $ bet. I think it will be difficult to find a judge that will be agreeable for both parties. ( No ATS, DTT,Suncoast or whatever staff allowed ;D )<br>I think that one of the difficulties is that some people could not stand the thought of having chosen second best. I'll admit that this would be hard to admit to have placed some thousand dollar bet on the wrong horse. But I think that since the philosophies of the 2 companies are very different these 2 will each have it's benefits and downsides. So IMHO the point would be to find a tranny that fits my needs specifically. Other owner- other usage- other tranny ... That's why in my opinion there are things like V10 RAMs , maybe also manual trannies, and stretching this theory to the almost absurd... even CARS.. unbelievable. ;D <br>( No I won't mention the F-word- no theory on this one 
)<br>So please post anything about the outcome of the test. <br>Also keep it fair in choosing the timeframe- both parties involved do have a business apart from this.(This could be time-consuming)<br> <br>AlpineRAM
)<br>So please post anything about the outcome of the test. <br>Also keep it fair in choosing the timeframe- both parties involved do have a business apart from this.(This could be time-consuming)<br> <br>AlpineRAM
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
So what exactly is the bet? That playing with the governer can cause a "bind up" shift, or that the Emjay controller can cause a bind up shift? IMO the controller should be used and only be adjusted within its parameters. After all, this is the equipment that has brought up this whole debate and supposedly causes this condition. Using a separte Transex controller than can adjust parameters way out of line (or differently than the Strategy does) seems line a stretch.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
I guess nobody wants to respond to my post quoted below. :'(
By the way, Bills' response to the ATS acceptance of his challenge is here:
http://www.dieseltrans.com/phpBB/vie...&start=145
This is going to be interesting and educational. I can't wait to see the results!
[quote author=Jack Thorpe link=board=7;threadid=8406;start=45#87019 date=1041451515]
Bill, I can understand your point of view, and I know there are always two sides of the story. That's why we're letting this thread follow its own course.
I also appreciate the fact that you're a busy guy, and that some kind of misunderstanding may have occured. However, I feel like you and Emjay should get together on the phone or something and work things out so you can test the product for your customers. By doing so, not only does it help Emjay, but it helps you, and ATS. I know you and ATS have your differences, but look at it from this analogy:
I've done work for telephone companies in the past working on 5ESS switches etc. What you see in that industry are MANY competitors. Well, since the AT&T breakup of 1984, those companies have to provide a service. Now although those companies compete against each other, they also cannot do business without each other. Their networks MUST interconnect with each other, or all that you have are a bunch of small networks that aren't compatible. That helps nobody. Believe me, I think many of them don't like each other, but they find a way to work around each other so that they can provide their specific service to customers.
I view this situation in kind of the same way, and here's what I mean:
ATS now has distributorship for the Emjay controller. Now some people would think that since that's occured, there is no way for DTT to even think about selling the product. I don't believe that. I think you can sell the product. Even if you can't use Emjay as your direct supplier, you can use ATS. That's why I named the analogy above. I don't know if it's totally appropriate, but it is similair. Even though you would be buying through ATS, you benefit because you still get to sell the product yourself, and have the added benefit of double checking the install. ATS benefits because they have a bulk customer, and emjay benefits because he makes money off selling wholesale. SO, even though you're competitors, you all benefit from a small project where you all work together.
Your core business is not the controller, and ATS's core business is not the controller, so your competition stays alive. I know the relationship between the two companies may be strained to the point where this might not be possible, but why not consider it? Everyone benefits financially, and you guys also might come to a friendly agreement on how you intend to compete with each other in the future. I believe it's no different than signing a treaty with another country.
I truely believe that as an ATS customer, I would benefit. DTT customers would benefit and both businesses would benefit from doing this. Hell, I would benefit too because I wouldn't have to moderate so many tranny wars.
Am I smoking crack here? I hope this makes sense. I'm not a business expert here but I do see the potential for something positive to come out of this, for everyone involved.
[/quote]
By the way, Bills' response to the ATS acceptance of his challenge is here:
http://www.dieseltrans.com/phpBB/vie...&start=145
This is going to be interesting and educational. I can't wait to see the results!
[quote author=Jack Thorpe link=board=7;threadid=8406;start=45#87019 date=1041451515]
Bill, I can understand your point of view, and I know there are always two sides of the story. That's why we're letting this thread follow its own course.
I also appreciate the fact that you're a busy guy, and that some kind of misunderstanding may have occured. However, I feel like you and Emjay should get together on the phone or something and work things out so you can test the product for your customers. By doing so, not only does it help Emjay, but it helps you, and ATS. I know you and ATS have your differences, but look at it from this analogy:
I've done work for telephone companies in the past working on 5ESS switches etc. What you see in that industry are MANY competitors. Well, since the AT&T breakup of 1984, those companies have to provide a service. Now although those companies compete against each other, they also cannot do business without each other. Their networks MUST interconnect with each other, or all that you have are a bunch of small networks that aren't compatible. That helps nobody. Believe me, I think many of them don't like each other, but they find a way to work around each other so that they can provide their specific service to customers.
I view this situation in kind of the same way, and here's what I mean:
ATS now has distributorship for the Emjay controller. Now some people would think that since that's occured, there is no way for DTT to even think about selling the product. I don't believe that. I think you can sell the product. Even if you can't use Emjay as your direct supplier, you can use ATS. That's why I named the analogy above. I don't know if it's totally appropriate, but it is similair. Even though you would be buying through ATS, you benefit because you still get to sell the product yourself, and have the added benefit of double checking the install. ATS benefits because they have a bulk customer, and emjay benefits because he makes money off selling wholesale. SO, even though you're competitors, you all benefit from a small project where you all work together.
Your core business is not the controller, and ATS's core business is not the controller, so your competition stays alive. I know the relationship between the two companies may be strained to the point where this might not be possible, but why not consider it? Everyone benefits financially, and you guys also might come to a friendly agreement on how you intend to compete with each other in the future. I believe it's no different than signing a treaty with another country.
I truely believe that as an ATS customer, I would benefit. DTT customers would benefit and both businesses would benefit from doing this. Hell, I would benefit too because I wouldn't have to moderate so many tranny wars.
Am I smoking crack here? I hope this makes sense. I'm not a business expert here but I do see the potential for something positive to come out of this, for everyone involved.
[/quote]
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Re:Emjay Strategy Controller
I read Bill Kondolay's reply to the challenge reply 
Did I read this thing incorrectly or is he telling ATS to send the money ahead of time to TDR but that he will bring his with him when he comes? <br><br> It never seems to end, What is so hard for people to grasp that a challenge is meant to be "fair" competition to both parties involved. What would make him think "He" should get paid to show up, or that ATS should be held to Higher accountability than him?.<br><br> It was Bill K's challenge and they accepted it, why would any sane individual think he should be paid to show up at his own challenge?<br><br> It just doesn't make sense in any shape of the word, maybe his words are being changed by somebody else I just can't see anybody really meaning to suggest this kind of nonsense.
Did I read this thing incorrectly or is he telling ATS to send the money ahead of time to TDR but that he will bring his with him when he comes? <br><br> It never seems to end, What is so hard for people to grasp that a challenge is meant to be "fair" competition to both parties involved. What would make him think "He" should get paid to show up, or that ATS should be held to Higher accountability than him?.<br><br> It was Bill K's challenge and they accepted it, why would any sane individual think he should be paid to show up at his own challenge?<br><br> It just doesn't make sense in any shape of the word, maybe his words are being changed by somebody else I just can't see anybody really meaning to suggest this kind of nonsense.
