I just want to say thanks to all the replies on this thread. I Used to have several tow trucks & pick-ups and most of them were sticks. The torque through them plus the engine braking cababilities is what i always prefered about them,and never thought automatics were any good in these applications. When i bought this truck i decided to go back to an auto,getting tired of shifting,even though the NV5600 is one bullet-proof trans,i decided i did'nt want to shift it all the time. Now with aftermarket torque converters,and controls of it, i am excited about getting the benefits of both worlds. I guess it would be common sense to assume that the trans may or may not hold up under slight mods or TCC control,or installation of a E-brake. There would be too many factors to consider. I guess because of cost restraints i was trying to short-cut my way to where i want to be with the truck. So let's see if this makes sense. I could put the Trans controller on and use it under normal or mild conditions,then modify the transmission,adding one of those slick TC's, and then install a e-brake. All this before i bomb the engine. I haven't heard any threads on how well the transfer cases or the Dana axles are holding up to bombing the Engine,anyone have any info? Thanks again TGCTD

 

I'll tell you my experience with a stock 47RE, and hopefully clarify some issues. <br><br>I experienced TCC slippage on an otherwise stock truck after installing an Edge EZ. I raised the line pressure to mitigate the slippage, but in doing so, several side effects occurred. The first side effect was a loss of the 1-2 WOT upshift. I fixed this by adding a resistor in series with the governor pressure sensor excitation voltage lead. This brought back the 1-2 WOT upshift, but lowered all part throttle upshifts, and sometimes started out in second gear. It also tended to &quot;hunt&quot; between first and second at parking lot speeds and light throttle. That is when I first had the idea for the Strategy controller, but that's another story.<br><br>The Strategy controller can be used to lock and unlock the TCC at certain speeds, but synchronizing the TCC apply/release to any gear is not possible without electronic control of the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. The 47RE does not provide this control. You can program it to unlock at 15 MPH, but you would have to manually downshift the trans to keep the RPMs high enough to prevent lugging and/or stalling.<br><br>Generally speaking, the Strategy controller can be used on a stock trans to change shift curves and fine-tune shift points, provide OD lockout and TCC Lock Preserve features. You're probably OK setting the TCC unlock to about 30-35 MPH and OD enable at 50 MPH and disable at 40 MPH, assuming you have 3.54 gears.<br><br>

 

Thanks mike for all the info. Good luck with the controller,and i will look forward to seeing it when they are available for purchase. TG

 

Has the issue of bind-up been addressed yet?

 

Here is some info taken from another site. It explains why I am conserned about the issue of bind-up. This was Stefan's story about Bill showing them how controlling the govenor circuit can cause bind up during shifts. I am interested in the emjay controller, but I don't want it ruining my tranny. Here is some of what I am talking about:<br><br>What the emjay controller is claiming sounds like pretty good stuff even to me. <br><br>Basically how can controlling the governor circuit cause a bindup shift or pressure drop in 3rd gear. <br><br>Bill took us in my truck and used it as an example, he plugged in the trans x and we went for a road test. For the first 10 minutes of the road test the truck performed perfectly. I told Bill I wanted my truck to shift at 1900 rpms under moderate throttle and the truck did so with him controlling the transmission with the transex controller . There was no bindup or anything, it was good clean shifting.. <br><br>He was also controlling lockup and od, for the first 10 minutes the truck worked flawlessly. On the way back to the shop when the transmission went to make the shift into 3rd gear Bill made the rear end of the truck lockup. He also created a 40 psi pressure drop. He said obviously this was an exaggerated bindup shift to get our attention , he got that right quick, he also showed me bindup shifts that could only be detected by the pressure gauges. I will be straight up with you guys, the shifts felt good by the seat of the pants I could not tell it was a bind up shift until I looked at the pressure gauge. I spent a great deal of my growing up like most kids trying to prove how smart I was so after seeing this done in front my eyes I was pretty silent. <br><br>I would like Emjay to address this and tell how it can be avoided, or how he managed to make his controller not do this. Thanks a bunch<br><br>

 

I am doing the install Tomorrow on the Emjay Strategy controller for the article. I will be detailing the process with lots of Photos and I will show how easy it is to set this thing up for trouble free operation.<br><br> The first Part will be on the stock Transmission, and I am really interested in how it performs with this set up.<br><br> I will run it for about a week or so trying different settings and track the progress here. Then I will move on to some Tranny upgrades, and show you the benefits there as well.<br><br> Stay Tuned! This is going to be fun and educational <br><br> Lary Ellis

 

Extreme Diesel,<br><br>Since you dragged DTT's dirty laundry over to this forum, I feel compelled to point out that DTT has yet to respond to my questions (TDR product/accessories forum, 12/19/2002)regarding the specific circumstances surrounding the alleged bind-up. The ball is in DTT's court on this one. I have copied the relevant chunk of that post below. I have many years of experience doing reliability and accelerated life testing of both mechanical and electrical components, and any reputable testing authority would fully document all of the conditions at the time of any anomaly or failure, which is the information I have asked for. DTT has not provided that information because either bind-up is a myth, or the circumstances that cause the bind-up can only be triggered using a special test box, and would never happen in an otherwise properly functioning transmission.<br><br>Anyway, here's the chunk of the post from TDR:<br><br>...as far as I know, the issue of &quot;bind up&quot; is unproven. You[Stefan Kondolay] mentioned that certain professionals have proven that bind up is essentially a repeatable anomaly, and can be triggered with manipulation of the governor pressure. If this is indeed true, what are the parameters that cause this to occur? In order to properly troubleshoot a problem, you must have a set of symptoms, and any conclusion drawn must explain all of the symptoms. Often there is more than one culprit responsible for a set of symptoms. In that case, any one conclusion must provide definitive evidence as to how and if it affects other symptoms. Anything else is specious reasoning, and you are basically fishing for answers, trying to make a symptom go away rather than explain its cause. Bill always says he lives and dies by the gauges, so what are the conditions that cause bind up? I'd like to recreate it myself. What I would need to know is: <br><br>1. Manual valve position, and whether it is accurately located in its detent <br><br>2. State of the following transmission clutches and bands: <br>a) Front clutch <br>b) Front Band <br>c) Rear Clutch <br>d) Rear Band <br>e) Overrun Clutch <br><br>3. State of the following overdrive clutches: <br>a) Overdrive Clutch <br>b) Direct Clutch <br>c) Overrun Clutch <br><br>4. The following pressures at bind up: <br>a) Rear servo <br>b) Governor <br>c) Accumulator <br>d) Overdrive Clutch <br><br>3. Current measured through the governor solenoid <br><br>4. Voltage at the signal (output) lead of governor pressure sensor <br><br>5. State of the TCC and OD solenoids <br><br>6. Position of the remaining valves in the valve body: <br>a) Shuttle Valve <br>b) 1-2 Shift control valve <br>c) Throttle Valve <br>d) Kickdown Valve <br>e) Boost Valve <br>f) L/U switch valve <br>g) 3-4 Quick fill valve <br>h) 3-4 timing valve <br>i) 3-4 shift valve <br>j) Lockup valve <br>k) Lockup timing valve <br>l) Accumulator <br><br>Armed with all of this information, let's work together and prove or disprove the bind up theory. <br><br>According to the D/C service manual, the diagnosis chart for &quot;Dragging or Locks Up&quot; contains eight possible causes. Granted, the manual is probably not complete in its listing of causes, but none of the listed causes mention governor pressure. The possible causes listed are: <br><br>1. Fluid Level Low <br>2. Clutch Dragging/Failed <br>3. Front or Rear Band Misadjusted <br>4. Case Leaks Internally <br>5. Servo Band or Linkage Malfunction <br>6. Overrunning Clutch Worn <br>7. Planetary Gears Broken <br>8. Converter Clutch Dragging <br><br>I submit to you that some other failure or anomaly in the transmission may be exacerbated by the application or manipulation of governor pressure, but variation in governor pressure itself is not the underlying cause. Since governor pressure is determined ostensibly by output shaft speed, that would imply that the transmission is susceptible to bind up at a certain speed or range of speeds. Given the number of transmissions out there (millions at least) this beast would have reared its ugly head long before now, and been dealt with by Chrysler Corporation long before the 47RE even existed. <br><br>Help us set this issue to rest. Bring out the truth. Post your findings. If you are not willing to, perhaps you can recommend another shop that has equipment like the answermatic 4000 and/or trans ex 2000 controller that presumably can help nail down this issue. <br><br>

 

[quote author=emjay link=board=7;threadid=8406;start=45#86891 date=1041415273]<br>DTT has not provided that information because either bind-up is a myth, or the circumstances that cause the bind-up can only be triggered using a special test box, and would never happen in an otherwise properly functioning transmission.<br>[/quote]<br><br>I believe this is there stands on your box, it's a special box that manipulates the governor signal just like their test box and may, I repeat may, cause binding. They never said it does cause binding, you never sent them one to evaluate.<br><br>I don't have a dog in this hunt because I have the no binding 5spd manual, so I'm unbiased and can say it like it is. Sent them one for testing and get this over with. You are only hurting yourself in the long run without their stamp of approval. You have nothing to lose by sending them one for testing and you will get it back, they said so.<br><br>Right now they will not approve it to be used on their transmission, that only hurts your bottom line. So if they test it and don't approve it you lost nothing. On the other hand if they approve it you gain customers.<br><br>SO STOP THE “HE SAID SHE SAID” AND SEND THEM A BOX TO TEST!!!<br><br>

 

However, I do have a dog in the hunt. This discussion is probably irrevelant, since Emjay has chosen a sole distributor. Having said that, the folks up North ARE NOT stupid. Why would they send Emjay the result of their testing? This is a competive enviornment and money driven, like it or not, thats' the way the mop flops.<br><br>Emjay, needs to send DTT a unit, like they did to this forum, and let the chips fall where they fall. Just my 2c

 

From what I understand, Emjay had offered for all vendors to test the unit, but went unnoticed by the boys up north until their customers started calling them about it. If I'm wrong, then forgive me but that's how I understand it. If that's the case, then I wouldn't send them one either.

DTR got a unit because we were interested and we pursued it. I was very excited when I heard about the unit, and I wanted to know more about it. What better reason for an article? That's the only reason why we pursued it so hard. Why give a free unit to someone who was completely disinterested up until their customers start asking about it? All the sudden, Emjay is the bad guy now because he isn't going to give them a free one. :

If ATS is the sole distributor, that doesn't mean that DTT customers can't buy the units. All they have to do is call, and I'm sure ATS would be happy to send them one.

By the way, why would they not send emjay the result of their testing? If both parties needed to work together to make the product safe for their tranny, then why wouldn't they share testing with each other? A simple NDA would prevent either party from revealing any secret information to the public. This is simple business, it's not rocket science, and both parties involved benefit from that.

Do you think Cummins and Dodge were able to fit the engine in the truck without sharing proprietary information with each other? No way.

 

[quote author=Extreme Diesel link=board=7;threadid=8406;start=45#86078 date=1041224882]<br>On the way back to the shop when the transmission went to make the shift into 3rd gear Bill made the rear end of the truck lockup. He also created a 40 psi pressure drop.<br>[/quote]<br><br>A 40 psi pressure drop sounds like it down shifted form 3rd to first.

 

I do not intend to add to the heat of this discussion, but frankly I don't see what has everybody so upset.<br><br> It is obvious to anybody with an IQ higher than a fence post, that the DTT VS Emjay issue came about only because ATS became involved. Up to that point everyone was happily ignorant of any &quot;supposed&quot; bind up issue.<br><br> Had ATS not tested and found the box to be everything it was claimed to be, they would not be marketing it. Once they chose to do so, the fight was on.<br><br> Reminds me very much of children on a playground, &quot;If I can't have it, Nobody will&quot;. The Emjay Strategy controller will stand on it's own merit just as all products must do, and for anybody to be so blatanly ignorant to knock a product he hasn't even seen is childish behavior at best. I would not send them one either, Hell I was going to order a complete Tranny upgrade from them, until I read that rediculous response on the Strategy controller by DTT.<br><br> The only thing I find more rediculous is the amount of fools who line up behind a childish statement of that kind trying to protect it. These self important individuals only fan the fire spreading rumor and innuendo rather than looking at the Facts. Facts are hard proven knowledge one obtains not by repeating what somebody else supposedly said, but rather digging into the issue first hand to find the Real Truth not someones version of it.<br><br> I called Emjay and got a controller to test, the only thing I promised in return is a fair and accurate assessment of the product. Good or bad I will print what I learn, they understood this and happily agreed. This should at least show that anybody who is really concerned could have gotten one, but to do that you lose the argument&quot;We can't get one!&quot; :'(. Hogwash!....Get over it! You want a unit to test, they are selling them daily.<br><br> If DTT had any concern other than the hatred of ATS in regarding the Strategy controller, none of this would have ever come to light.<br><br> New products hit the market everyday and yet only the &quot;Strategy controller&quot; has been singled out in this manner, and ONLY after they learned ATS was looking at it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see the Real Truth of the issue, unless of course you are one of those POM POM wavers who only care about which side you are on.<br><br> Thank you for posting this childish behavior, it saved me from placing an order for a transmission from someone that I would not be pleased to do business with. <br><br> &quot;If I can't play I will take my ball and go home now.&quot;<br><br> Really people, Let these manufacturers prove their products on the streets where the Real professionals do it everyday, not in some childish bantering in the forums.<br><br> I am a Gunsmith by trade, their are several in my area, I do not speak badly of any of them. To do business in such a manner is beneath me and Them as well, thankfully we don't feel the need to operate in such a shameful way.

 

[quote author=Animal link=board=7;threadid=8406;start=45#86896 date=1041421488]<br>They never said it does cause binding, you never sent them one to evaluate.[/quote]<br><br>According to Emjay, DTT was one of the first people that he contacted about the product. His requests were ignored. That is until DTT customers starting asking them about that product, at which time they changed their minds I guess.<br><br><br><br>According to Emjay, the product does not &quot;take control&quot; of the governor circuit, so how do you know this? Have you been doing some testing that we don't know about with a secret emjay unit out there?

 

First of all Jack,

I am just here to clarify.

When emjay originally contacted us i was Vegas at a drag race. Our event schedule is still posted on our website from back then. None of the he said she said is relevant.

For me to start listing dates of contact with emjay and phone records of our conversations and copies of emails back and forth would certainly show the sequence of events supporting what we have been saying all along, but most importantly is that it still doesnt address the root of the problem.

As a professional transmission builder i know how this transmission works. Emjay said himself he controls the governor circuit, now you guys are trying to be cute and suggest i am testing a controller on the sly so that is how i know.

When non-transmission technicians are providing feedback from seat of the pants driving without thought to the internal workings of the transmisison i have cause for concern.

This entire thing should never have been a big deal, it still should not be. Unless ?? the question always back to the testing. Our equiptment is not magic,a pressure gauge , transmision diagnostic machines, a lot of transmission shops have them nothing new there.

Stefan made a couple of pretty good posts on the tdr,and also its on our site, for some reason he wasnt able to post here. His posts are more on the technical side and is another perspective you guys may want to check it out.

Bill Kondolay
DTT Transmission Builder
www.dieseltrans.com

 

Bill, I can understand your point of view, and I know there are always two sides of the story. That's why we're letting this thread follow its own course.

I also appreciate the fact that you're a busy guy, and that some kind of misunderstanding may have occured. However, I feel like you and Emjay should get together on the phone or something and work things out so you can test the product for your customers. By doing so, not only does it help Emjay, but it helps you, and ATS. I know you and ATS have your differences, but look at it from this analogy:

I've done work for telephone companies in the past working on 5ESS switches etc. What you see in that industry are MANY competitors. Well, since the AT&amp;T breakup of 1984, those companies have to provide a service. Now although those companies compete against each other, they also cannot do business without each other. Their networks MUST interconnect with each other, or all that you have are a bunch of small networks that aren't compatible. That helps nobody. Believe me, I think many of them don't like each other, but they find a way to work around each other so that they can provide their specific service to customers.

I view this situation in kind of the same way, and here's what I mean:

ATS now has distributorship for the Emjay controller. Now some people would think that since that's occured, there is no way for DTT to even think about selling the product. I don't believe that. I think you can sell the product. Even if you can't use Emjay as your direct supplier, you can use ATS. That's why I named the analogy above. I don't know if it's totally appropriate, but it is similair. Even though you would be buying through ATS, you benefit because you still get to sell the product yourself, and have the added benefit of double checking the install. ATS benefits because they have a bulk customer, and emjay benefits because he makes money off selling wholesale. SO, even though you're competitors, you all benefit from a small project where you all work together.

Your core business is not the controller, and ATS's core business is not the controller, so your competition stays alive. I know the relationship between the two companies may be strained to the point where this might not be possible, but why not consider it? Everyone benefits financially, and you guys also might come to a friendly agreement on how you intend to compete with each other in the future. I believe it's no different than signing a treaty with another country.

I truely believe that as an ATS customer, I would benefit. DTT customers would benefit and both businesses would benefit from doing this. Hell, I would benefit too because I wouldn't have to moderate so many tranny wars.

Am I smoking crack here? I hope this makes sense. I'm not a business expert here but I do see the potential for something positive to come out of this, for everyone involved.