Sled Puller

[quote author=Don M link=board=7;threadid=7805;start=30#77125 date=1039284145]<br> I have a problem with cutting too much material away from the flywheel. Joes clutch is not for pulling. Joes clutch has a sprung hub, better for the street and towing. Mitchells clutch is not sprung and rattles constantly at idle. It also transmits vibrations right into the tranny. Not good for long term and street driven use. <br>. <br><br><br>Don~<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>Not one Mitchell clutch rattles at idle, not one.<br><br>You still don't have a clue, as always. What you stated above is about half right. If anyone would like the facts, without Dons distortions of them, please feel free to pm me.<br><br>Nobody has ever said safety was not necassary. Quite the contrary.<br>If I were you, Don, I would be more concerned about the clutch you are running, that has been retempered, and never fully tested with a load on it. if anything is going to come aprt on the street, I believe a set of springs that have been reheated several times, instead of built for a load in the first place would be a weak point.<br><br>Van, Scheids and Mitchells are all leaders in this industry, and it cracks me up to see a guy who has never seen a pull or competed, preaching to us about anything.<br>Steel flywheels were becoming the norm in competition trucks, last season.<br><br>It is also funny to see BULLWAGON preach safety, as he fought the ATPA's Pro Street Safety rules tooth and nail all last winter. <br><br>Nobody is saying we don't need saftey, but if you want to throw stones at the guys on the pulling track, in a somewhat controlled environment, you dang well better start thinking about these trucks on the street with inferior clutchs that can't hold 300 hp, let alone 500 or more.<br><br>How about a driveshaft letting go while you are blasting that rice rocket at 100MPH? Maybe loops should be on street trucks.<br><br><br>

South Bend Clutch

Gene,<br><br>Why? I was being supportive. Please don't read between the lines. Like I said, that could have very well been my clutch. As for Pier's clutch, Yes it did break but it did not explode. The plate is ductal iron and it broke in half. After everyone inspected it in Canada they found air bubbles in the metal, the casting was flaud. As for the Centerforce, The problem with their clutch is the disc. The wieghts don't apply much either at low RPM's and that is why I am not using it for that. I put this clutch together with my FE disc for the racers. They want to speed shift and it has helped to make my feramic disc hold, bringing the diaphragm back faster. Creig Monroe has broke into the 12's with this clutch on number 2 only. Gene, you have never heard me bash EE, infact I have sent many people to them. My main concern was and is safty. I wish I had time to build all the parts for these trucks to make it safe but I don't. I am a clutch man and I build clutches for all makes and models including farm equipment and industrial. This is why I am leaving it up to EE and the others soley in this trade and counting on them to do it right.<br><br>Peter

Push Rod

[quote author=Sled Puller link=board=7;threadid=7805;start=30#77098 date=1039278809]<br>hmmmm, lets see here- Daves clutch let go after 2 years of mega hp, far and above ANYBODY on TDR, and abuse, Peters let go in a TWO WHEEL DRIVE with STOCK TIRES after about 6 seconds. You would have thought the tires would have spun first.[/quote]<br><br>QUICK! Someone start an automatic thread too <br><br>I wasn't going to get into this, but lets set the record straight on the 6 second failure. I'm assuming we're talking about Pier's truck, right? That can't be creditted back to a design flaw in the clutch, it was traced back to a hub casting flaw, and verified by independent eyes. Any clutch, whether it be a Mitchell, Haisley, Doc Joe, or SBC could be susceptible to a manufacturing flaw, especially one that can't be seen by visual inspection.<br><br>Big note here: I'm not commenting on the South Bend pulling capability vs any other clutch. Just wanted to dispell any notion that may have formed that the destruction was based on bad clutch design.<br><br>Now I'm gettin' outta here before someone lights my sheep on fire <br><br>Rod

Sled Puller

Peter,<br>My mistake, sorry!

Don M

Sleddy,<br><br>Re-tempering when done properly is the best way to increase clamp load. Not many guys know how it is done or the proper way to do it. So noone can get it done. That brings me back to clamp load.....where are those numbers Peter?????<br><br>My clutch is sheilded somewhat with a 1/4&quot; thick piece of steel between the bellhousing and me. Bolted to the tranny. I know that clutchs and flywheels can explode. I large chunk of steel is between my feet and the clutch. I will post a picture of it for you to see later.<br><br>I heard the Mitchell clutch in Larry Crawfords truck making alot of noise at the KC dyno event. Maybe it was failing?<br><br>Watching a pull has nothing, zero, zip to do with knowing how stuff works or if there are potential problems with broken parts.<br>Im not throwing stones either. Find me one stone I threw. I only stated the facts.<br><br>Once again, do you have a blanket? Do you use it on the street? Does the tranny get hot if so? Do you feel your cast iron flywheel is up to the task of pulling and being safe? I posted what the manufacturer says about MAX rpm with their flywheel. This was for a stock engine with stock power pulling stock loads. <br><br>Don~<br> <br><br><br><br>

Don M

Peter is right, the clutch pressure ring is made of cast iron. So is the Sachs and the Centerforce and Mitchell clutchs.<br>The reason is the coefficient of friction is very good with cast iron when compared to steel. Also ductle iron can deal with heat very well when compared to steel. Our exhaust manifolds are made of ductile iron and not steel for this reason.<br>Cast iron is not allowed in many racing circuits because it can crack or stress fatigue and later explode. Although, I feel the material has less to do with the strength than the design of the part. Example: many things are constructed of plastics and are very strong if designed right.<br><br>I dont think the SouthBend FE has a bad design, I think it has a limited design for pulling sleds and the Sachs would or could potentially be even worse than it. The stamped steel hat on the Southbend may give it an edge when pulling sleds for safety, but neither clutch should be used at all for this.<br><br>Once the pullers are mandated to install clutchs using steel flywheels, steel pressure rings, steel pressure plates, hats ,etc. It will be time to go back to the drawing board again.<br><br>Don~ <br><br><br><br>

Sled Puller

[quote author=Sled Puller link=board=7;threadid=7805;start=30#77098 date=1039278809]<br>If I was going to stay at this level, I would not be concerned. I will have one for next year, along with loops, kill switch ,air shut off, etc.<br><br><br>[/quote]<br><br>I stated that once before, I guess you missed it? We dscussed air shut off after.<br><br>If I'm going to turn more than 4000 rpm, I would get a steel flywheel, I may get one anyway, just in case I go with more power sometime in the middle of the season.<br><br>See Don, you see/hear something, and you state it as fact. Maybe you should have asked Larry about the rattling. It is ONLY WHEN THE CLUTCH IS DISENGAGED. (clutch pedal down, fellas)You know that.<br><br>The trouble with you preaching about a sport you are not involved in Don, is just like the Californian eco terroists telling me how I should take care of my back yard. It doesn't wash.<br><br>That 1/4 inch plate you bolted on probaly let Joe in for more liability, because he admits his clutch COULD fail, and he trys to band-aid it.<br><br>Keep your retempering!<br>And where is that link to the monster truck exploding and killing dozens?? Another &quot;fact' perhaps?

Promoter

Now Gene....how could I fight ATPA's safety rules &quot;tooth and nail all last winter&quot; when the ONLY safety rules where the 3 loops per shaft and a kill switch? I said the 3 loop per shaft rule was a waste and the kill switch wasn't required to cut off the airflow. ATPA of all people should know what these trucks are capable of, therefor should've been on top of safety. Scheid's devised a set of rules for their ATPA class this year. It featured MANY,obviously too many, safety requirements. But all of them were waved because the guys from OH,PA, and MI didn't want to comply. I think it is moronic that the ATPA would create a class with NO limits on power and basically no safety requirements!

Sled Puller

(sigh) How many times do I need to type this answer? I'm not. Go to that puller site if anyone wants the answer.<br>www.pullingpoweronline.com<br><br>Not one truck that pulled could have passed those SS rules, not one. Considering they were only realeased ,what, 4 days before the pull, they are lucky anyone showed up.<br><br>Still not sure why they were such a closely guarded secret.Then they wouldn't even let Frank pull. Told him on the phone not to come. Thats helping the sport.

Rob Thomas

****, I leave for a few hours and this thread goes nuts. Don, don't you work?

About the flywheel cutting, like I siad, I'm not 100% sure it is cut .110, but whatever it is, has there been any problems? If so, who? When? Just facts tho, no quessing please.

This is a PULLING CLUTCH, I/we bought it for pulling, If the unsprung hub thing, is making people (Don, Peter) wonder about the longevity of the transmission, why? I mean, ok maybe, just maybe my transmission's life will be shortend, but give me a break, I pull a 45,000#+ sled, EVERTHING ON MY TRUCK'S LIFE IS SHORTEND. And I know that, that is the price I will pay, it's my choice, as is everyone who pulls. If they're shocked something broke, thats just stupid.

All your harping on safety is fine, even though I have an underpowered, lack 'o RPM truck, I will have a blanket, loops, and maybe even a air cut-off switch by next season. But why stop there, what about roll cages, 5-point harnesses, goggles, firesuits, and the list goes on......cause there is remote chance my heap could wheelstand, flip over, knock me outta the seat, then I catch on fire from the cigarette in the ashtray, and poke my eye out on the straw thats in my slurpie in the cup-holder. I mean, ya gotta cover all bases, right? My point is, the safety items are coming, they're here, give it a rest.

Later, Rob

BTW, I have the romex on, torch away..............

Lary Ellis (Top)

I like the exchange of information here guys, very informative. But we have several examples here where we have skirted the edge of respect.<br> <br> Lets not let it get out of hand and end up locked up.<br><br> State your facts, give us your opinions, but leave the attitude's at home.

Don M

No torches from me....at least you realize the shortfalls of your clutch. Unfortunantly all the clutchs in the world have a few. Even my Sachs. Pulling sleds with yours is a strong point. Holding a bunch of HP with mine is strong point. ETC, ETC.<br><br>Now...lets talk about that smoking thing you have going....did you know that can cause cancer? <br>And slurpies will make you fat and hairy like Gene ;D<br>You dont wanna be a footless, fat, hairy, and cancer riden pile do ya? :P<br><br>Don~<br><br>

Rob Thomas

[quote author=Don M link=board=7;threadid=7805;start=45#77223 date=1039303039]<br>No torches from me....at least you realize the shortfalls of your clutch. <br>Don~<br><br><br>[/quote]<br><br><br>Don, Don, Don, Do you have dyslexia?<br><br>I din't say anything about &quot;shortfalls&quot; in my clutch, what I did say was &quot;maybe, just maybe&quot;, as in, maybe Michigan will be hit with a category 5 hurricane. ;D<br><br>Later, Rob

Don M

Yes, I have dyslexia. I need pictures to help me understand things better. Kinda like a small child when they begin to learn. Speaking of pictures I saw one of a Mitchell clutch that exploded on the TDR once. That was all this dyslexic needed to get the idea. <br><br>Don~<br><br>

Sled Puller

You got the idea that Mitchell has twice the power of any west coast truck?<br>Thats understandable.