Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
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Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
A noobie question, forgive me. I have a 2002 ETH, with a BHAF, a 4 inch exhaust, and the Edge EZ. I looking to go with new injectors, and I'm considering the RV275's, the DD stage I's, or the DD stage II's. <br><br>Can anyone give me information so I can make the right choice? I understand that the RV275's are the mildest, followed by the DDI's and then the DDII's. I believe the RV275's and DDI's would work well, but can I go with the DDII's? What kind of issues would there be? Smoke, durability? <br><br>Someone told me that the DDI's have the same part number as stock and look the same, too. Is that true? And what is honed extrusion? How is that different from stock or the RV275's? <br><br>A lot of questions. Appreciate your help. <br><br>Ascraeus
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From: South Carolina, Indiana
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
Whoa there, take a breather. That's a lot of questions! ;D I'm in the same boat as you except I don't have a brand new truck :'( <br><br>I had planned on running the 275's just so I didn't get in any hassles with the ******* but that was before you mentioned the DD1's having the stock part number...you've got my attention. I'll just say welcome to the site and I'm sure you'll get the info you need. There is a lot of experience/knowledge on this site.<br><br>Ryan
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From: St. Louis, MO
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
Well to my knowledge all of the DD injectors use extrude honed stock injectors and therefore carry the same part number as stock. They require you to send your stock injectors to them(core charge). Extrude honed is a process of enlarging the orifice of the injector by forcing a sand paper like clay through it thus enlarging it. As far as I know the RV275 injectors can be distinguished from stock. Not likely the ******* could tell but it is possible. The extrude honed stock injectors cannot be identified except by putting them on a flow bench and testing them compared to stock. I don't see a dealer checking that. As far as which ones to choose that is up to you. I would get the DD 2s but I am sure that you will need to upgrade the clutch/trans to handle the additional power. Hope this helps. If any of the info that I have given is incorrect, somebody please let us know the truth.
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From: West Jordan, Utah
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
It depends upon what performance level you're trying to achieve. You can go as high as DD3s and still be able tow and have good smoke control, but run better with turbo mods. Higher altitudes and hot days will cause more smoke.<br><br>I think 275s on an ETH run real good. They add about 42 hp, and can be found for cheap.<br><br>You'll need guages if you don't already have them. They are a must.<br><br>275s and DD1s are probably all your stock clutch will handle. You can make the stock clutch last longer by staying out of the peak touque band and keeping rpms avove 2000.
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From: Va Beach,Va
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
I started with 275's and a month later wanted more. I installed DD3's and sold my 275inj. Power is very addicting in these engs. so be sure to get the ones you want the first time so you dont have to do the job twice. Tim
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From: Palmer Alaska
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
i was in the same boat, i wanted 275's but you read about all the people that want to upgrade more after they get the bombing bug. I dont want to upgrade my clutch yet(since it is only 3 months old) but with the DD2's I dont think i will have to, when i put on my box, then i will have to upgrade. Hope this helps.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
Here's the chart of the DD website of the HP given from each of the injectors. IMO you should get the big ones to start with... you're just going to be wanting them anyway.<br><br>
<br><br>John
<br><br>John
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Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
Well, I appreciate all the responses, and I've seen that graph at DD's site. I've already got all the gauges on an A pillar, too. Looks like the DD's are the way to go, but the question is whether the clutch will hold a DD stage 2.
One further question. I thought the stock clutch had been changed for the '02 6 speeds, along with the input shaft. Aren't they supposed to be larger and able to take more torque? If so, wouldn't the DD 2's work for the '02's, when they might not work for earlier 6 speeds? I don't plan to put my foot into it very much or very hard.
Ascraeus
One further question. I thought the stock clutch had been changed for the '02 6 speeds, along with the input shaft. Aren't they supposed to be larger and able to take more torque? If so, wouldn't the DD 2's work for the '02's, when they might not work for earlier 6 speeds? I don't plan to put my foot into it very much or very hard.
Ascraeus
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From: South Carolina, Indiana
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
[quote author=Ascraeus link=board=7;threadid=6210;start=0#57068 date=1035487932]<br>I don't plan to put my foot into it very much or very hard. <br><br>Ascraeus<br>[/quote]<br><br>It's ok man, you can be honest with us. ;D
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Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
OK, I'll be honest. I need the power for hauling in the hills and merging onto freeways. And I don't mind smoking an occasional ricer or Duramax that's trying to cut me off. <br><br>But I really don't want to invest in an SBC, a Luk Gold, or a Centerforce clutch assembly if the improvements on the '02 CTD don't require me to. Anyone know anything about the '02 clutch holding an unpinned Comp and DD2's? <br><br>Seriously, thanks for the responses so far.<br><br>Ascraeus
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From: West Jordan, Utah
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
You WILL eventually need a clutch with DD2s. I don't believe there's a difference between the '01 and '02 clutches. Keeping the rpms up definately helps clutch life. <br><br>I smoked my stock ETH clutch with just an PE box and a little propane - before the EZ, Comp and South Bend were on the map. Getting a good ETH clutch was tough back then.
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Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the clutch assembly from '01.5 & '02 NV5600's. Following are language that can be found on New Venture's site, and from the Dodge Ram tech site:
"The HD version [of the NV5600 and clutch assembly] for late 2001 and all 2002 trucks is rated for 675 lb-ft. input."
*and*
"Chrylser and New Venture Gear beefed up the NV-5600 and the clutch for 2001 to better support up-rating the engine. Research at the Chrylser Proving Ground and using test trucks with uprated engines revealed that the transmission's input spline shaft sheared off (metal fatigue) after about 150,000 miles of towing their 20,000 lb.test trailer all around the western USA. So for 2001, the NV-5600 has a 1 3/8" 10 spline input shaft instead the 1 1/4" 12 spline shaft used in prior years. A new fly-wheel has an improved, larger pilot bearing, too. The clutch is 330 mm in diameter instead of the 300 mm version found in the 2000 and prior years. The new clutch can handle much more torque and is quite a bit bigger, using double the number of bolts to hold it to the fly-wheel."
*and*
"Which Clutch do you have?
If you have a 13" clutch, there will be a 3/4" aluminum spacer between the rear housing and the starter. If you have a 12.25" clutch, the starter will bolt right up to the block. All DEE's manufactured after 8/99 had 1 3/8"x10 spline, and the bigger clutch set. Older 6 speeds had 1 1/4" and smaller clutch and on top of the tranny will be "DEA" in black marker."
So there *definitely* seem to be differences here to consider. What Ascraeus seems to be asking, and what I'd like to some input on as well, is whether anyone has *actually* tried to run late '01's or '02's with these upgrades with "semi-aggressive" fueling mods such as boxes and mid-range injectors. "Oh, I think so" based on experience that may or may not be relevant is *not* what I'd want to hear if I was considering investing over a thousand dollars in clutch modifications that I might not need.
I don't mind saying "I don't know but that's a good question" if, in fact, I don't know. So -- is there anyone who does know?
[If I seem a bit sharp here, forgive me -- it's not intended as a judgement on anyone on this thread.]
GP
"The HD version [of the NV5600 and clutch assembly] for late 2001 and all 2002 trucks is rated for 675 lb-ft. input."
*and*
"Chrylser and New Venture Gear beefed up the NV-5600 and the clutch for 2001 to better support up-rating the engine. Research at the Chrylser Proving Ground and using test trucks with uprated engines revealed that the transmission's input spline shaft sheared off (metal fatigue) after about 150,000 miles of towing their 20,000 lb.test trailer all around the western USA. So for 2001, the NV-5600 has a 1 3/8" 10 spline input shaft instead the 1 1/4" 12 spline shaft used in prior years. A new fly-wheel has an improved, larger pilot bearing, too. The clutch is 330 mm in diameter instead of the 300 mm version found in the 2000 and prior years. The new clutch can handle much more torque and is quite a bit bigger, using double the number of bolts to hold it to the fly-wheel."
*and*
"Which Clutch do you have?
If you have a 13" clutch, there will be a 3/4" aluminum spacer between the rear housing and the starter. If you have a 12.25" clutch, the starter will bolt right up to the block. All DEE's manufactured after 8/99 had 1 3/8"x10 spline, and the bigger clutch set. Older 6 speeds had 1 1/4" and smaller clutch and on top of the tranny will be "DEA" in black marker."
So there *definitely* seem to be differences here to consider. What Ascraeus seems to be asking, and what I'd like to some input on as well, is whether anyone has *actually* tried to run late '01's or '02's with these upgrades with "semi-aggressive" fueling mods such as boxes and mid-range injectors. "Oh, I think so" based on experience that may or may not be relevant is *not* what I'd want to hear if I was considering investing over a thousand dollars in clutch modifications that I might not need.
I don't mind saying "I don't know but that's a good question" if, in fact, I don't know. So -- is there anyone who does know?
[If I seem a bit sharp here, forgive me -- it's not intended as a judgement on anyone on this thread.]
GP
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From: Palmer Alaska
Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
Mr. Poet, I dont know all the numbers and input splines but what I do know is that is with stage 2 injectors, my stock clutch is still working and no slipping. I think when I get my box I will need to upgrade.
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Re:Bosch RV275's, Diesel Dynamics stage I & II injectors
Ouch! Do you mean "Mr. Poet" in the sense that Marines call a person "mister"? ;D
Guess I deserved it -- bad day yesterday, bad mood today -- learned yet another way that the "governmental institution" for which I work screws the tax payer. >
Anyway, here's the answer to Ascraeus's question, from the folks at Diesel Dynamics themselves -- The '01 and '02 NV5600s indeed have a stronger input shaft, pressure plate, and pilot bearing -- they'll wear forever in high torque applications. The problem is the clutch disc. It's larger by a little less than an inch, and better constructed -- but it has significantly less clutch material on the facing than the older discs in the '99's and '00's.
So DC/NV replaced bad pressure plates and input shafts and good clutch discs with good pressure plates and input shafts and bad clutch discs. Go figure. :
It's right on the line with an EZ-type box and DD2's -- 350 HP is what the '01 & '02's are rated, and 355-360 HP is what you'll get, as long as you don't pin the pump wire on the Comp. The problem part of the RPM range is around 1800, which is the sweet spot for cruising with the 6 speed and 3.55 axle.
Bottom line, change the clutch and be safe. But if you do, you won't get away with any warranty claims. So it looks like the RV275 or DD1's are the best bet, with a change out to DD2's & SBC's when warranty no longer becomes a problem.
I think I've got that right, but if anyone has anything to add --
GP
Guess I deserved it -- bad day yesterday, bad mood today -- learned yet another way that the "governmental institution" for which I work screws the tax payer. >
Anyway, here's the answer to Ascraeus's question, from the folks at Diesel Dynamics themselves -- The '01 and '02 NV5600s indeed have a stronger input shaft, pressure plate, and pilot bearing -- they'll wear forever in high torque applications. The problem is the clutch disc. It's larger by a little less than an inch, and better constructed -- but it has significantly less clutch material on the facing than the older discs in the '99's and '00's.
So DC/NV replaced bad pressure plates and input shafts and good clutch discs with good pressure plates and input shafts and bad clutch discs. Go figure. :
It's right on the line with an EZ-type box and DD2's -- 350 HP is what the '01 & '02's are rated, and 355-360 HP is what you'll get, as long as you don't pin the pump wire on the Comp. The problem part of the RPM range is around 1800, which is the sweet spot for cruising with the 6 speed and 3.55 axle.
Bottom line, change the clutch and be safe. But if you do, you won't get away with any warranty claims. So it looks like the RV275 or DD1's are the best bet, with a change out to DD2's & SBC's when warranty no longer becomes a problem.
I think I've got that right, but if anyone has anything to add --
GP