BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
09-16-2003, 04:29 PM
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BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
OK MY TRUCK IS GOING TO HAVE ABOUT 500 HP. WHICH TORQUE CONVERTER WILL BE THE BEST FOR ME (48RE)
WAR MAY BE STARTED (SORRY BUT I NEED TO KNOW)
WAR MAY BE STARTED (SORRY BUT I NEED TO KNOW)
09-16-2003, 04:43 PM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
XCumminsX: You won't learn anything about torque converters by starting this war. Maybe you'll see a nice pissing contest.
I'd suggest that you go and look for people who drive trucks in your desired power range and ask them to go for a ride (or maybe even to let you drive) with these trucks- and then choose what you like best.
You do also just state 500hp- not the intended use. At least at DTT the intended use and altitude and the exact mods you have done to your truck are taken into consideration when building the package. (I don't know how eg ATS or Goerend do handle this, but wouldn't be too surprised if they also took this into consideration)
AlpineRAM
I'd suggest that you go and look for people who drive trucks in your desired power range and ask them to go for a ride (or maybe even to let you drive) with these trucks- and then choose what you like best.
You do also just state 500hp- not the intended use. At least at DTT the intended use and altitude and the exact mods you have done to your truck are taken into consideration when building the package. (I don't know how eg ATS or Goerend do handle this, but wouldn't be too surprised if they also took this into consideration)
AlpineRAM
09-16-2003, 04:51 PM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
I know Diesel Dynamics has done a TON of horsepower testing on the '03's, and they only use DTT stuff. 
Trying NOT to pee the furthest,
Andrew
Trying NOT to pee the furthest,
Andrew
09-16-2003, 05:03 PM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
Two different companies and two totally different approach's at handling the horsepower.
This thread is about the torque converter only so I think the best way to help is to explain the difference in how the two put the power to the transmission, stall speeds, etc.
Also I don't think your tranny can handle 500+ hp with just a TQ upgrade even though it is a far superior tranny to the 47re.
hope this helps steer things...
James
This thread is about the torque converter only so I think the best way to help is to explain the difference in how the two put the power to the transmission, stall speeds, etc.
Also I don't think your tranny can handle 500+ hp with just a TQ upgrade even though it is a far superior tranny to the 47re.
hope this helps steer things...
James
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09-16-2003, 06:07 PM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
Well I didn't say this before but IMHO there is much more to the AT than a TC.
Especially if you do bomb your truck you are shooting for a different torque/power curve. With a manual tranny you'd simply shift accordingly. But, since autos are kind of programmed to shift according to some inputs like speed and throttle position, and they assume the stock torque curve, the stock gearing etc they do have a very hard life doing their job right when you change these parameters. EG you have more torque at a certain throttle position and rpm. You'll have numerically lower gearing ( I know that this is in laymans terms now) with bigger tires. So to make a tranny shift nicely (not snapping your neck and make you spin merrily across the wet road) the AT does dose the apply force of the clutches and bands according to the throttle position. Always just enough to make it hold. So this makes the shifts soft. If we add up some torque at the same throttle position, we will reach a point where the torque will be more than the tranny can hold. (Doesn't matter which clutch or band starts to slip, all of them buggers should hold) And now the nice red fluid is getting brown and smelly.
Hence the need to do a lot more to a tranny than just swapping the TC to make it survive a bombed Cummins.
Now to my personal opinion about the differences in philosophy between the ATS and the DTT TC and tranny concept.
First of all it seems to me that ATS advocates to use lockup as much as possible. DTT relies on a strong fluid coupling and lowers the stall speed of the TC quite a bit. DTT offers different grades of TCs according to the customers engine characteristics and intended use. (I don't know if ATS does offer this too, would be some important info to decide IMHO)
ATS makes a very strong lockup clutch to make it hold the torque in any situation. DTT leaves the TC clutch open to let the TC adjust to the needs of the situation (like giving the engine mechanical advantage by sacrificing speed through torque multiplication)
A great downside of the torque multiplication while fluid coulping is that it has losses and generates heat. ATS avoids this by locking the TC, so no fluid coupling, no heat. The disadvantage of the locked TC is that it won't multiply torque,so you will need a wide powerband to have a driveable vehicle- actually the Cummins ain't bad at this.
With good fluid coupling and torque multiplication the engine will be running close to it's sweet spot most of the time.
So, you see there is no free lunch.
I think that the other differences between what these 2 companies do to the innards of the tranny are a result of the different philosophies. Both do increase the amount of torque the clutches can hold. Differences in the VBs and electronic gadgets they put into the package are a result of the different controlling needs between the two concepts.
Disclaimer: All my comments on the ATS transmissions are my personal opinion after having read their website and somme comments on their forum. All my comments on DTT transmissions are based on reading the DTT website, the DTT forum and building, installing and driving one of their transmissions. If I did misrepresent any of the vendors transmissions or products this is a result of my misunderstanding their products and I would be glad to be informed and educated by the respective experts. No bashing or badmouthing of any vendor was intended.
Disclaimer 2: I am a user of a DTT transmission, see details in signature. I have turned about 120 000 kms on this tranny and am still very happy with it.
I can only suggest to do lots of research and base a decision on the results.
AlpineRAM
Especially if you do bomb your truck you are shooting for a different torque/power curve. With a manual tranny you'd simply shift accordingly. But, since autos are kind of programmed to shift according to some inputs like speed and throttle position, and they assume the stock torque curve, the stock gearing etc they do have a very hard life doing their job right when you change these parameters. EG you have more torque at a certain throttle position and rpm. You'll have numerically lower gearing ( I know that this is in laymans terms now) with bigger tires. So to make a tranny shift nicely (not snapping your neck and make you spin merrily across the wet road) the AT does dose the apply force of the clutches and bands according to the throttle position. Always just enough to make it hold. So this makes the shifts soft. If we add up some torque at the same throttle position, we will reach a point where the torque will be more than the tranny can hold. (Doesn't matter which clutch or band starts to slip, all of them buggers should hold) And now the nice red fluid is getting brown and smelly.
Hence the need to do a lot more to a tranny than just swapping the TC to make it survive a bombed Cummins.
Now to my personal opinion about the differences in philosophy between the ATS and the DTT TC and tranny concept.
First of all it seems to me that ATS advocates to use lockup as much as possible. DTT relies on a strong fluid coupling and lowers the stall speed of the TC quite a bit. DTT offers different grades of TCs according to the customers engine characteristics and intended use. (I don't know if ATS does offer this too, would be some important info to decide IMHO)
ATS makes a very strong lockup clutch to make it hold the torque in any situation. DTT leaves the TC clutch open to let the TC adjust to the needs of the situation (like giving the engine mechanical advantage by sacrificing speed through torque multiplication)
A great downside of the torque multiplication while fluid coulping is that it has losses and generates heat. ATS avoids this by locking the TC, so no fluid coupling, no heat. The disadvantage of the locked TC is that it won't multiply torque,so you will need a wide powerband to have a driveable vehicle- actually the Cummins ain't bad at this.
With good fluid coupling and torque multiplication the engine will be running close to it's sweet spot most of the time.
So, you see there is no free lunch.
I think that the other differences between what these 2 companies do to the innards of the tranny are a result of the different philosophies. Both do increase the amount of torque the clutches can hold. Differences in the VBs and electronic gadgets they put into the package are a result of the different controlling needs between the two concepts.
Disclaimer: All my comments on the ATS transmissions are my personal opinion after having read their website and somme comments on their forum. All my comments on DTT transmissions are based on reading the DTT website, the DTT forum and building, installing and driving one of their transmissions. If I did misrepresent any of the vendors transmissions or products this is a result of my misunderstanding their products and I would be glad to be informed and educated by the respective experts. No bashing or badmouthing of any vendor was intended.
Disclaimer 2: I am a user of a DTT transmission, see details in signature. I have turned about 120 000 kms on this tranny and am still very happy with it.
I can only suggest to do lots of research and base a decision on the results.
AlpineRAM
09-16-2003, 09:33 PM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
check suncoast in florida. 3 year warrenty, unlimited milage, unlimited horsepower. Thay also take into consideration your gear ratio, tire size, and all of your mods. Also great price
09-17-2003, 07:18 AM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
XcumminsX all the tranny vendors will take your tire size HP mods ETC into concideration when you build a trans they want you out there with the best after all as almost all of us realize its our word of mouth that sell the transmissions. Each vendor will treat you well. I chose my DTT after its praise on this forum when I joined and saved for 2 years to buy it. Best mod I have done to my truck. I highly suggest reading the different vendors forums there is very good technical info there far more then you will find here.
09-17-2003, 08:29 AM
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Re:BEST TORQUE CONVERTER FOR 48RE WITH 500 HP IN FRONT
Besides reading the vendor forums call them on the phone. They all have toll free numbers and are willing to answer any questions you may have.
Stan
Stan
