View Poll Results: what do you think?
Hoss is da man, no
25
33.78%
Geico's question. He knows, yes
42
56.76%
your both wrong its a vto
7
9.46%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll
will the plane fly?
Thread Starter
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From: Nebraska
Originally Posted by Fat Framer
Ok, here is another situation.
You have a trike( a 3 wheel motorcycle). the rear wheels are the powered wheels(just like the engines on the plane). there is a conveyer just wide enough to fit the single front wheel on and said conveyer matches the speed of the trike. If the rear wheels are on a solid surface and provide propulsion, and the front wheel rides on a conveyer that matches the speed of the trike in the opposite condition , will the trike move. YES! because the engine/drive wheels are not working in direct relation to the conveyer. If the front wheel was the drive wheel, it would just sit there and spin.
You have a trike( a 3 wheel motorcycle). the rear wheels are the powered wheels(just like the engines on the plane). there is a conveyer just wide enough to fit the single front wheel on and said conveyer matches the speed of the trike. If the rear wheels are on a solid surface and provide propulsion, and the front wheel rides on a conveyer that matches the speed of the trike in the opposite condition , will the trike move. YES! because the engine/drive wheels are not working in direct relation to the conveyer. If the front wheel was the drive wheel, it would just sit there and spin.
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From: HANFORD CA
Originally Posted by Geico266
That is a GREAT analogy!
LOL. Justin
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From: Bayville, New Jersey
[COLOR=DimGray]
I took me awhile to figure one out. here's another:
if a tug boat has a max speed of 10 knots and is at full throttle going against a 10 knot current, will it move upstream. No. Why, cause the propulsion device is working in direct relation to the current , basically cannceling one another out. now if it was a fan boat, the boat would go just as fast as it would without a currrent (and yes, if you keep raising the current speed up to match the speed of the boat it will slow a little due to friction with the water but there is a lot more friction on a boat then on rolling wheels ) because it is driven by air pressure, just like the plane. Now if you add a head wind into the calculations, all bets are off!
Originally Posted by Geico266
That is a GREAT analogy!
if a tug boat has a max speed of 10 knots and is at full throttle going against a 10 knot current, will it move upstream. No. Why, cause the propulsion device is working in direct relation to the current , basically cannceling one another out. now if it was a fan boat, the boat would go just as fast as it would without a currrent (and yes, if you keep raising the current speed up to match the speed of the boat it will slow a little due to friction with the water but there is a lot more friction on a boat then on rolling wheels ) because it is driven by air pressure, just like the plane. Now if you add a head wind into the calculations, all bets are off!
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From: Bayville, New Jersey
Originally Posted by hemijustin
The answer is NO... because if the trike accelerates then the relation ship of the front tire to the belt has been changed....this would mean the machine had failed to do its job therefore declaring the test inaccurate......
LOL. Justin
LOL. Justin
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OK the tires on the plane have nothing to do with whether the darn thing will fly or not, the wheels are spinning yes, but they don't have any effect on the lift that is needed to get the plane up in the air.
Planes need a run way to get enough air around the wings to create lift which is what takes the turkey off the ground. If it's sitting on a belt sitting in a stationary position with the turbines running full throttle, there may be enough propulsion from the turbines to possibly move it but not enough to lift it up and allow it to fly. It needs that air to the wings to work.
It's just like a turbo on our trucks, they are extremely efficient until you start running out of usable air, same thing with the turbines. The turbines can only do so much without the speed and the lift to make it take off.
In my opinion the belt is serving the same purpose as having the plane sitting at a dead stop. Can a plane take off sitting at a dead stop??? NO!!! The belt is moving the opposite direction as the tires on the plane..............to me that sounds just the same as it sitting still...........I agree with HOSS, but I guess we will agree to disagree........this thread will go on forever because nobody will admit that they are wrong!!!
This is just my opinion and I've been wrong before. But this sounds logical to me so I'll go with it and shut up!!!
~Nick
Planes need a run way to get enough air around the wings to create lift which is what takes the turkey off the ground. If it's sitting on a belt sitting in a stationary position with the turbines running full throttle, there may be enough propulsion from the turbines to possibly move it but not enough to lift it up and allow it to fly. It needs that air to the wings to work.
It's just like a turbo on our trucks, they are extremely efficient until you start running out of usable air, same thing with the turbines. The turbines can only do so much without the speed and the lift to make it take off.
In my opinion the belt is serving the same purpose as having the plane sitting at a dead stop. Can a plane take off sitting at a dead stop??? NO!!! The belt is moving the opposite direction as the tires on the plane..............to me that sounds just the same as it sitting still...........I agree with HOSS, but I guess we will agree to disagree........this thread will go on forever because nobody will admit that they are wrong!!!
This is just my opinion and I've been wrong before. But this sounds logical to me so I'll go with it and shut up!!!
~Nick
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From: HANFORD CA
Originally Posted by Fat Framer
Just like the airplane wheels. They are not powered, the only whay they will spin is if the airplane moves foward. if the plane cant move forward to make the wheels spin, they will spin 0rpm making the conveyer spin 0rpm.
If i start at point A and end up at point B then i have moved therfore the belt did not match the speed of the wheels.........................
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From: Sandy, Utah
Originally Posted by Gotlift01
Planes need a run way to get enough air around the wings to create lift which is what takes the turkey off the ground. If it's sitting on a belt sitting in a stationary position with the turbines running full throttle, there may be enough propulsion from the turbines to possibly move it but not enough to lift it up and allow it to fly. It needs that air to the wings to work.
Couldn't have said it better myself, or did I way back on page 12?
The plane will most likely take a leisurely stroll down the conveyor belt runway and fall of the end ever so gently.
That's what my toy jeep on the roll of paper did, slowly made it's way down to the end and fell off.
phox
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From: HANFORD CA
You darn ppl. its a trick question. in order the for the wheel on belt to be exact opposite speeds at all time the plane CAN NOT MOVE. the plane can move if it wants too.. but in order to keep the belt and wheel opposite speed at any given time the PLANE MUST NOT MOVE....and since the plane can not MOVE its Not going to take off...... DO YOU GET IT????THEN engines on the PLAN CAN NOT BE USED IN this test because they would make it move and throw off the wheel/ Belt speeds.... The Belt through UNKNOWN powers from out of this UNIVERSE will KEEp the PLANE from MOVING because that is the only way the wheel speeds can be the exact opposite ant any given TIME!!
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From: Garrard county, Kentucky
Originally Posted by Hoss
The size of the wheel doesn't matter. The condition was that the conveyor speed ALWAYS matches the wheel speed. The result of that condition is that no matter how fast the plane tries to go, the conveyor will always match the speed at which it is trying to roll along, but in the opposite direction. Two equal and opposite forces mean one thing....STATIONARY OBJECT.
EXACTLY If the wheels were only HALF the size, then its going to spin the smaller wheels twice as much to go as far as the other bigger wheel would in one revolution. The smaller wheels are doing the same thing the conveyor is. They are spinning the bearing twice as fast, and as you just said yourself. IT DOESENT MATTER; which is why the plane will fly. Thanks for co-operating Hoss
Eric
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From: Central VA
Well I only hope the FAA doesn't start installing "Inverse-Speed-Matching-Conveyor-Belt runways at our Nation's airfields, or those poor inebriated pilots won't know which end is up.
As this is all pure make believe anyway.....who gives a Ratz Tush......32 pages later?
As this is all pure make believe anyway.....who gives a Ratz Tush......32 pages later?
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From: Central Coast Ca
If the pilot locked the brakes on when he throttled the engines up the conveyor would be moved forward by the thrust. If the tires were capable of holding without sliding it would be possible for the plane to develop enough lift to take off. ( if the conveyor was long enough)
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oh geeeeez! I started this question along time ago on a different board. I was told it was making its way all over the net.
First, the plane flys. The conveyor has virtually no effect on the plane at all. Its not a trick question , its not trick wording either. The conveyor does not put an equal force on the plane.
There were several good analogies in the last 30 plus pages too. If you believe the plane won t fly......I like this one....then you must also believe that if you strap a plane to a dyno, that the drums will turn. And thus you can measure the hp a plane produces on a wheel/ drum dyno. "Hello Dynojet, this is Major Smith at the US air force, we would like to order a dynojet 200000 so we can get some hard numbers on our f117's...."
The conveyor can not stop the plane. Atmosphere is a seperate object that the force is being applied to , that is NOT moving.
First, the plane flys. The conveyor has virtually no effect on the plane at all. Its not a trick question , its not trick wording either. The conveyor does not put an equal force on the plane.
There were several good analogies in the last 30 plus pages too. If you believe the plane won t fly......I like this one....then you must also believe that if you strap a plane to a dyno, that the drums will turn. And thus you can measure the hp a plane produces on a wheel/ drum dyno. "Hello Dynojet, this is Major Smith at the US air force, we would like to order a dynojet 200000 so we can get some hard numbers on our f117's...."
The conveyor can not stop the plane. Atmosphere is a seperate object that the force is being applied to , that is NOT moving.