Okay, I thought about this while on my way to the hanger as a way to help you non-flyers see the light.

Our plane is sitting on the conveyor, only it (the conveyor) is already moving 5 MPH. The tail is resting against a building so the plane is stationary. The pilot throttles up, the plane moves forward to 100 MPH. The wheels are turning 105 MPH right? He takes off at 100 MPH. The plane is flying right?

Next our plane is sitting on a conveyor that is moving 50 miles per hour. The tail of the plane is against a building or something. Pilot throttles up, the plane moves forward to 100 MPH and takes off. The wheels are turning 150 MPH. Okie dokie?

Finally, The conveyor is moving at 200 MPH. The tail of the plane is resting against a building. The wheels are spinning like crazy. Pilot throttles up the plane reaches 100 MPH and takes off. The wheels are spinning at 300 MPH.

Does that make sence now? The speed of the wheels have nothing to do with the problem. The plane thrusts against the air.

 

To heck with the plane..... check out this bicycle! Just add wings hahaha

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....548C525CDB&p=0

 

30 pages. must be winter.

 

I see your point there that the conveyor speed equals wheel speed not plain speed and it made me rethink my original conclusion. I dont calim to be a rocket scientist and the way this thread is going we may all have to chip in and hire one to give us definate answer but I still hold to my original conclusion that the plain will fly. Reason being that in order to creat wheel speed at all the plain must move forward. If the plain did not move forward at all there would be 0 wheel speed and therefore any movement buy either the wheels and conveyor or body of the plain would be imposible. It would be as if the propellers or jet had absolutle 0 thrust even before the conveyor started to move. I still hold to my opinion that the tires and conveyor speed would be twice the speed of the plain. oh crap!!! I may have just got it into my head that this is an imposible solution. due to the fact that all my reasoning has been based on the conveyor maching plain speed not wheel speed. It just entered my mind that the wheel speed and the conveyor speed would be diferent in my way of thinking. They must stay the same buy the original wording of the question. Shoot!! I need to go find a corner and hide now and rethink all of this. I may have to change my answer to no solution because the wheel speed can not vary from the conveyor belt speed and the way i had it figured was air plain travaling 100 mph one way and conveyor travalling 100 mph the oposite way making the tires spinn 200mph but that does not mach the conveyor speed. OK I conceed that in this exact thery that there is NO SOLUTION. Now if the question had said that the conveyor mached the speed of the plain and not the tires then YES it would fly just as if there was no conveyor but in this case it is an imposible situation to keept he wheel speed and conveyor speed at and exact mach. POOP

 

lol the bottom track in relation to the ground is not moving. 0mph

Justin

 

Okay I'll put my 2 cents in on this. No the plane will not take off(in my opinion only). Lets say we started the conveyor first, planes wheels begin to spin, after enough accelaration of the belt the friction starts to take effect and the plane starts to be moved backwards from the friction. Now we fire up the jet engines, as the thrust comes up then the planes position neutralizes as the thrusts acts like a brake to cancel out the friction and force being applied to the wheels by the conveyor. Maybe we can e-mail the question to NASA. By the way which came first the chicken or the egg?

 

The plane can take off if it wants to. but in order for the wheel/Belt speed to be the exact opposite at any given time the Plane can not move in relation to a stationary object. and since the engines on an airplane do not turn the wheels But rather move the air. The plane would move in relation to a stationary object. this would cause the Belt to infinitely accelerate while trying to catch up to the opposite speed of the wheels. concluding in order for the belt and wheels to remain at the same speed the plane cannot move. There fore the question is illogically written and impossible to answer

I sincerely hope this helps those of you that still believe there is a solution to this Equation.

Thank you,
Justin

 

NOT infinitely, unless you ignore friction. Rolling resistance at some point will equal thrust.

 

An egg and a chicken are laying in bed, the chicken rolls over,with a satisfied smile, and lights a cigarette. Meanwhile, the egg rolls over with an extemely disgruntled look, pulls the covers up, and says in a disgusted tone of voice. " WELL, I guess that answers THAT question.....

There you have it

 

<Sigh>

Do you REALLY think that argument hasn't been made already?? Come on...if you're going to argue for takeoff at least make it a good argument.

Some people just don't get it. Unfortunately, that seems to be the majority of people in this instance. Oh well...what can I say.

 

Shut up you FREAK!!!

 

Alot of time on your hands today fellas? 1) no matter how fast the conveyor goes, if it zero's out the wheel speed techniclly the conveyor would be travelling in the direction the plane is aimed and would keeping pace with the output of the engines. If it is travelling in the oppisite direction at a speed equivalent to the forward motion of the plane, all it will do is double the speed of the tires before take off. (However to double the speed of the tires might cause them to exceed their critical speed and blow apart. 2) With the brakes on and the engines at full power the plane dosen't move or lift off. No flow over the wings, no lift.

the conveyor is really nothing in the equation because the plane is gripping the air with it's engines not the ground.

 

 

The reason many of us are confused about this fly/no-fly thing is due to the wheelbarrow full of " ... well, just think of it like this ...' stories.

So to muddy the water a little more ... I submit this ...

.... to clear up something I read earlier ... if the conveyor is already moving at 100 mph in the same direction as the plane going 300 ... you wouldn't add them together to make the wheels turn at 400 mph. You'd have to subtract the 100 mph that the conveyor is turning making the wheels turn at 200 mph instead. HOWEVER .... the plane itself would be moving at 400 mph relative to it's surroundings.

Think about those conveyors that you walk on in the larger airports (Atlanta). At the start of the walkway, the belt is moving at an estimated 3 mph, your feet are moving at an estimated 3 mph (ergo your body is also moving at 3 mph cuz they are attached to your feet). Now, when you step on that conveyor ... what happens ? The conveyor is still moving at 3 mph, your feet are still moving at 3mph and although your body is still moving at 3mph in relation to your feet ... it is now moving at 3 mph faster than the belt and 6mph faster than everything else that is not on the conveyor. Everything is relative here, gentlemen. You have to keep that thought in mind when you look at the airplane scenario.

PISTOL

 

If you can make a conveyor that can break the speed of sound that is 3000 ft long 150 ft wide then I can put a set of slicks with very low friction tires on my plane that are sprayed with oil to increase slippage with atomic bearings and say the plane will fly . The wind created by the belt on its own would launch the plane in the air and the tires would not be touching very long . My guess would be very few modifications would be needed on the planes gear . Simply fly in ground effect until proper speed is reached and leave the runway . The only reason it would not fly would be the drag from tires and their are hundreds of ways to decrease drag . Stand behind a belt spinning that fast and you would be blown into next week and probably killed by flying parts . I know the original question says no wind but that was before you started this impossible to build machine up . The aircraft gear would be possible to build so I stick by my original answer it will fly and would probably have a very short take off roll .