[quote author=cfm3110 link=board=10;threadid=10853;start=0#104054 date=1045113857]<br>Our armed forces have my undying respect, unending prayers and unwaivering support. being 19 and growing up in a peaceful time for the most part i have no clue what war is like or what it feels like to see a loved one go, but i am a firm believer in doing what is right. Being a Bible believing Christian i believe that when God says in Romans that our rulers &quot;do not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.&quot; He means it. I love this country and would die to protect the freedom we have. If I come to a point where i feel like i am needed to fight, i will gladly do so. Anyway, sorry for the sermon, ill shut up now <br>[/quote]<br><br>I see nothing in your &quot;sermon&quot; for which you should be sorry. And, don't shut up. Your's is a voice in a wilderness of silence in what's right. It's too easy to grab a sign saying no war in iraq and wave it on freeway overpasses. Where were these &quot;peace lovers&quot; when Saddam was ordering the slaughter of his own people, the genocide of Kurds and other atrocities? I find it insulting that we're even bothering to have to put up with Germany and France. By the way, what is Belquim's status in the world? Like has been mentioned before, I believe that US Forces in Germany should decamp and move to Poland or some other former Soviet Bloc country that could put to good use all the money that is spent by our government and personnel. Germany is no longer a pivotal piece of property since the end of the cold war. France resents that we've had to come over there and save their bacon twice in recent history. Once again, the true friends come forth. Before jumping into war, plan, plan, prepare and supply. I've personally participated in too many hastily prepared missions and would not wish that on anyone. I'm truly suprised that a former 12B would. Now, that's enough from this soap box. Your turn.<br><br>~Dave

 

Amen

 

[quote author=cfm3110 link=board=10;threadid=10853;start=0#104054 date=1045113857]<br> If I come to a point where i feel like i am needed to fight, i will gladly do so. [/quote]<br><br>No better time than the present, my friend !!! We are going to find ourselves knee-deep in this thing very soon ... possibly on both sides of the globe, and it's gonna take young patriots like you to step up to the plate and get us through. <br> Not trying to be a recruiter, but it takes more than waving a flag to win a war.<br><br>PISTOL

 

A wonderful day!!!!!!<br>We got the double clutching BMF's rolling down the road with out TOO many problems.<br>After formation, the first shirt double checked the personnel in each vehicle, just to be sure. He came up with an extra troop that wasn't on his 1379. Note All of this was happening in front of one 2 star and two 1 stars. This kid was from the town, but in a unit elsewhere. He had heard that the Guard unit in that town had been mobilized and he showed up, ready to go, and with all his stuff.<br>Those with the stars gathered him up and put him on orders as their driver.<br>The poor kid is smart as a whip, but can't find his butt with both hands.<br>I'm glad that the Boss and his crew took care of him. He has been nicknamed Gomer and he loves it.

 

&gt; Hay Shortround I know just where your coming from I came back from the Nam in 1972 no one spit on me ''CAUSE I'LL TELL YOU IF THEY WOULD HAVE, I'D HAVE STOMPED THERE A$$ RIGHT IN THE GROUND AN THOUGHT NOTHING OF IT&quot; this is what makes me so sick an tired of hearing all the BLEEDING HEART FREAKS in this country. OH YOU SHOULDN'T HURT ANYONE LETS TALK ABOUT PEACE.<br> Well let me tell you people an I use that word &quot;people&quot; loosely, that back in 1970-71 an 72 I saw piece thats spelled right( piece ) cause what I saw were Pieces of our guys laying all over the place, why because we weren't aloud to keep going once we got to a certain point it was stop there an come back till next week an then you can do it all over again, just to keep the munitions manufactures L. B. J. the main owner of these factories, RICH an RICHER YET.<br> So I say lets go get these towel heads quick an be done with them. stop playing around in DC an get going. <br> <br> Sorry for the long speech here but once I get started on this kind of subject I just get so mad that I can't stop.<br>But anyhow I'm ready, there's not one room in my house that don't have a good GUN in it an ready to use.<br> the end Bob 8)

 

Shortround - a friend of mine was a full-time supply sergeant in the NC Guard during the Desert Storm operation. The logistics of supplying the troops is staggering. I got a chance to see firsthand what goes on behind the scenes and the organization is incredible. Anybody who doubts the commitment of our troops to do this right the first time has never experienced the inner workings of the military. Let the politicians talk all they want, just don't let them rein in the dogs too soon this time.

 

Well I must state my quite unpopular opinion here!<br><br>First: I do admire the working of all military personnel in a state of war. <br><br>But, you may call me whatever you want... I prefer peace to war. I think that even with the so-called sugrical bombings a whole lot of civilians will suffer from the war that seems to come up. <br>And, personally, having travelled some of these regions I do not see a possibility of a true peace after this war. I think so because of the impressions I gathered about these people's characters. <br>I really would like to see that the negotiations had success, and that there wouldn't be a war. <br>I admit that I can NOT concede with the things that go on down there, especially not with what a Mr. Hussein is doing to his people. <br>I DO doubt the US mandate as a world police. I think that that's what the UN is for. And I personally think that without the UN mandate for a military mission the US is not legitimated to start a military operation in Iraq. <br><br>Stepping from the soapbox<br><br>AlpineRAM<br><br>A young guy from a country that has been the first country after Germany to be ruled by the *****, subsequently losing his one grandfather to the concentration camps, the other grandfather crippled by US bombers, having worked in the former Yugoslavia transporting medicaments to hospitals in the war zones. <br>I do think of myself as a pacifist out of experience.

 

I have just one thing to say.<br><br>Get us out of the United Nations.

 

StakeMan: Why do you think that it would be good if the USA left the UN ?<br><br>AlpineRAM ???

 

You know, if we keep blowing on this thread really hard we could get a good sized FLAME going. <br><br>PISTOL

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=10;threadid=10853;start=15#106073 date=1045591280]<br>StakeMan: Why do you think that it would be good if the USA left the UN ?<br><br>AlpineRAM ???<br>[/quote]<br><br>(Grabbing the soapbox out from under my desk)<br><br>I'm not sure of StakeMan's answer, but mine is that it has become a colossal joke. Libya chairs the committee on Human rights? Iraq chairs the conference on disarmament? Sounds more like a Twilight Zone episode than a serious world body aimed at resolving disputes among nations... <br><br>The only way a body such as the UN could be truly effective is if a: nations have the scruples to abide by the agreements they reach; or b: it usurps the sovereignty of its member nations. A is clearly a pipe dream, as the 12 year history of Iraq's avoidance of the resolutions following Gulf War I shows. B is just flat-out unacceptable, and should be so, to any nation. <br><br>The organizational structure, which might have been valid 50 years ago, no longer reflects geopolitical reality--why is France a permanent member of the Security Council and not India? Why are (or were) dictatorships such as China and the ex-Soviet Union given a vote equal to that of liberal (in the classical sense, not the wacky Berkeley leftist sense) democracies? That alone ensures that not only is the organization unlikely to work, but that it is doomed to failure. So the question is, why pour our hard-earned tax money down a rathole when all it gets us is at best nothing, and at worst, a bunch of grief?

 

jfpointer: I know that the UN is not perfect. Still I think that it has done a lot of good for keeping peace whereever possible. I agree that there is need for reforms to accomodate todays political reality. <br>Your argument about the inefficiency: I think that there is a mechanism like the mandate for a military intervention by UN troops after the UN has found that a state does not comply with the regulations. <br>You complain about the UN not reflecting geopolitical reality: On the one hand I think you are right about the non-members. But why do you think that France is not a proper member of the security council? <br>I think that all nuclear powers should be members. ( Regardless where they got the weapons from) Just plain and simple to avoid nuclear weapons being used. <br>About giving the &quot;dictatorships&quot; the same vote as &quot;liberal democracies&quot; :<br>First if you are in agreement with the UN there is no &quot;real dictatorship&quot; ( I state the theory behind it) and why shouldn't a body of say 1 billion people be represented in the UN regardles of the form of government?<br>I can understand your point of view about the money- Austria is also a net payer to the UN, and also sends troops. When comparing troop numbers and money spent, please take into consideration that there are less than 8 millions of us Austrians....<br><br>Just my thoughts....<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

The UN costs the USA a lot of money. A current example is the 6 billion dollars to use the air strips in Turkey. The UN is like a sedatied traffic cop. What is the point of being a member of something that does not act on its own rules.

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=10;threadid=10853;start=15#106138 date=1045603868]<br>jfpointer: I know that the UN is not perfect. Still I think that it has done a lot of good for keeping peace whereever possible. UN or NATO? It seems like NATO has had more effect helping the wall come down, etc. <br><br>I agree that there is need for reforms to accomodate todays political reality. <br>Your argument about the inefficiency: I think that there is a mechanism like the mandate for a military intervention by UN troops after the UN has found that a state does not comply with the regulations. When do they make a stand and enforce this? I thought that is what we were trying to do until NATO started back pedaling.<br><br><br>You complain about the UN not reflecting geopolitical reality: On the one hand I think you are right about the non-members. But why do you think that France is not a proper member of the security council? Should a member of the security council be coercing the countries applying to NATO because they side with the US, also a NATO member?<br><br>I think that all nuclear powers should be members. ( Regardless where they got the weapons from) Just plain and simple to avoid nuclear weapons being used. I thought we were trying to prevent &quot;new possession&quot; of nucs? Is it really possible to &quot;contain&quot; Iraq? Aren't Europeans concerned about Hussein making nucs and chemicles available to neighbors for a nice price, much less launching them? Months of musical chairs? If there were more inspectors able to pin down his mobile labs, do you think he would stay as cooperative?<br><br> <br>About giving the &quot;dictatorships&quot; the same vote as &quot;liberal democracies&quot; :<br>First if you are in agreement with the UN there is no &quot;real dictatorship&quot; ( I state the theory behind it) and why shouldn't a body of say 1 billion people be represented in the UN regardles of the form of government? As by definition, are the &quot;people&quot; really represented in a dictatorship?<br><br>I can understand your point of view about the money- Austria is also a net payer to the UN, and also sends troops. When comparing troop numbers and money spent, please take into consideration that there are less than 8 millions of us Austrians....<br><br>I'm sure that is the main reason we're so touchy about it. We provide the bulk of the resources to an orginization that leads our troops without fully understanding our doctrine. Our country didn't develope and organize itself to get led by Europe again.<br><br>Just my thoughts.... Not picking on you, just questions for another viewpoint.<br><br>Don<br> <br>[/quote]