The problem here is the news media doesn't tell you about the tens of thousands of Iraqis that ARE helping us and taking an active part in rebuilding their country - I guess good news doesn't make them a lot of money in TV ratings. It is reprehensible that any human being would do this to another human being, but that is the nature of evil, and it's not going to go away until Christ returns. Isolationism doesn't work, as Sept. 11 proved; we let these organizations form, organize and strengthen far too long before doing something about it, so the price of dismantling them is going to be much higher. Let's offer our prayers for those who are doing the job, and those who have fallen doing that job - they deserve that much. This includes the Iraqis and everyone else we don't hear anything about who are trying to turn their country back into a respectable member of the human race.

 

He's just a young'un, venting. I agree, no nukes....it just doesn't allow them to suffer enuff. I just think we need to get a couple divisions over there and establish some security, so the guys probing and patrolling can concentrate on their job instead of wondering if their tenet is gonna be standing when they return. I also think they should reconstitute the VULCAN and use it for infantry support. That would screw'em up good.

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m163.htm

 

It's sounding more like they were mercinaries. That being said We need to step on the human waste that did this and we have pictures to catch them.

 

 

I'll throw in my 2c here- and I'm donning my asbestos underwear for the flaming I expect.

I think that a part the Iraqui people sees the US troops not as liberators- but as an occupying army. People who cooperate and especially deal with the occupators are seen as traitors.

I may add that the language I see on this site in some of the discusions, and the opinions stated by some members here are in no way less violent than the propaganda of radical movements. This ranges from "nuke them" (primitive outcry IMHO) over "These people are just this side of animals. If you look at those pictures, some of the animals in them appear to be kids" (rather racist isn't it) to "The Middle East is notorious for their brain-washing religious icons. The terrorists who think they're fighting for the right cause feel they're justified. No matter what sort of gov't we help them form there will still be terrorist attacks over there. And if we did kill them all, we'd be just as evil as Hitler...although, that seems to be the only solution." (Which is exactly the logic applied by Hitler for the biggest atrocities in WW2. Reading statements like these as a non-american does form opinions about US citizens and the USA in general. I don't think that Europe can cope with the stated mentality to bomb the (whatever) out of anybody who disagrees. (And lots of states outside Europe too IMHO)

Another factor in this war and it's reception is that each and every media seems to have it's own spin on it. Small parts of the greater picure are picked out and shown for the reason that they will serve the own's agendas purpose. Naturally I don't want to condone grenading people in general, abusing the dead bodies etc... On the other hand it would be quite interesting to hear the other side of the story- were those people by any way special targets of the mass hatred seen here? (Like being mercenaries, credit sharks, mafia looking for "cheap buys" etc)

A very funny thing to me is that for the standard Euro agenda, that's in this case "make the Americans look as stupid as possible", it's laughably easy to get the exactly right kind of answer to anything out of US citizens mouths- With a little editing and cutting make the Americans look like obese overcivilized troglotytes not knowing where to put their testosterone if they can't drive ridiculuosly big cars to the next McDonalds.

Well, that's about it.

AlpineRAM

 

I suppose that I should not do this, but in all due respect the European nations are coming from a bad situation calling or insinuating that the US is as accused. If fifty years ago, Hitler did atrocities that he did without European help, without racial hate, with the citizenry being held captive, then Europe would have a good case against the US. Instead the European people and especially the German peoples, joined in with the hate, the conquering, the killing and torture. They were the reason that Hitler was able to do what he did. Deny the signs, the racial hatred, the race that was better than the rest of the world and you have a case. No, the US and of all countries, Russia, had to team up to put down the worst example of anarchy that the world has ever seen and hopefully ever will. Once put down, my tax dollars, along with everyone else’s in the US went to rebuild and create freedom in the European countries. As in Japan we did such a good job that these countries now stand in judgment of us, as superior to us. -The intent of the US and its citizens is not and never was to dominate other countries and occupy them. Our past experiences prove this. Individuals in desperation make flippant responses to the horror that is perpetuated against the US. But where are the “Crystal Nicht” and other demonstrations that have taken place in other areas. If the other countries could afford to drive the large vehicles, they would, always. As a matter of fact, you do.

Our worst decisions and worst leadership has never created the death and destruction that other countries have had to face and some participate. Maybe Europe would have a different view if after 1946 we just went home and let Russia have it all. Let them rebuild their own cities, let us use the money to buy bigger cars and trucks. Look at Eastern Europe as an example. Rather the US genuinely threw away the greatest military machine that had ever been produced. It went into the ocean for the most part. The US rightfully holds its place in the world as a superpower, we earned it, with God's guidance. What would Hitler have done in response to the killings of the contractors? Easy, he would have lined up the citizens of the town, men women and children; machine gunned them and then blew up the village. That is Europe’s legacy, not America’s. Saddam would have gassed them, and did. Or bought some more wood chippers. Maybe other countries should stand back and look at the real situation. Drop the jealousy for our big cars and build some themselves. Thanks Germany, France, and Spain, for the help and the respect. Hope you never need us again. But then, the US would be there for you as always. And these same people making the flippant responses would be gladly giving their life for Europe once again.

I personally think that the political threads should all be closed so we can get on the building of Cummins engines. In that area we all get along. Politics and religion are bad subjects for public posting. People have their own set in ideas and do not change. God and history regulate these things. God puts or allows certain facts to be in peoples hearts, no one else listens.

 

I agree exactly with the quote above. Thanks Bill.
And with that, I am going to close this thread. I'm also going to speak with the other Admins concerning the allowence of Sensitive Subjects.
99.9% of all of us would choose other subjects to talk about if we were sitting face to face at a get-together of diesel owners. My thought is that there are more than enough other websites that anyone can go to and debate politics,,,, religion,,,,, and other controversial subjects.

It is so much nicer to use this site for discussing our trucks and good times.